JC
Jonathan Chatfield
3 years ago
I am confused by one thing. The Gideons are an organization that distributes bibles. The version they typically distribute—and have been doing so since they began—is the King James Version of the bible. Which other versions of the "holy" book was "esoteric and mysterious"?
Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. Simplest of mathematical sciences prove his existence.
HA
hassan amoud
3 years ago
Again I feel so thankful for you to write ✍️ to me. I appreciate it. I know what the Bible says and I know where some people where they changed the message of God. I know that human beings science and knowledge are limited and cannot explain everything in our universe, but I also have to use my mind and recognize the true and false. In both Christianity and Islam God is creator and Almighty and he created Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Physically you can't deny that before 2022 there was no Jesus, physically Mary delivered Jesus. This fact tells me that Jesus is not a God because for me God never born from a woman. Here I have to use my mind and compare between the two texts, Bible and Quran knowing that I am a man living in 21 century. Quran sent down to Mohammad who clearly said that Quran is the God's Holy book. Off course I have to admit also that initially Bible was the book of the same God. Here I have to go throughly reading both Holy books. Since we have at least 4 Versions of Bible this initially indicates differences and it makes my trust weak. Second all what Quran wants you is to go back to the God who alone created the whole universe not Jesus and not holy spirit and off course not Mohammad.604 pages of Quran tells all human beings to worship God the only God with no partner. This fact I attached the fact before 2022 years and off course I will be 100% with what Quran guide me to do, yes to worship only God only my God who sent Jesus and Mohammad to show people the God's pathway. The life story of Jesus to make him a God or a son of God was fabricated by people who intentionally wanted people to go to bad life. Although it conflicts with all human mindsets. Here also I have to use mindsets and be reasonably 🤔 think.
Ask my self" why God wants to sacrify innocent to save criminals? If sinners are responsible and Liable for their sins and bad deeds? Why God wants not to forgive them simply and easily when they get back to him and confess and ask him not t
HA
hassan amoud
3 years ago
Again I feel so thankful for you to write ✍️ to me. I appreciate it. I know what the Bible says and I know where some people where they changed the message of God. I know that human beings science and knowledge are limited and cannot explain everything in our universe, but I also have to use my mind and recognize the true and false. In both Christianity and Islam God is creator and Almighty and he created Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Physically you can't deny that before 2022 there was no Jesus, physically Mary delivered Jesus. This fact tells me that Jesus is not a God because for me God never born from a woman. Here I have to use my mind and compare between the two texts, Bible and Quran knowing that I am a man living in 21 century. Quran sent down to Mohammad who clearly said that Quran is the God's Holy book. Off course I have to admit also that initially Bible was the book of the same God. Here I have to go throughly reading both Holy books. Since we have at least 4 Versions of Bible this initially indicates differences and it makes my trust weak. Second all what Quran wants you is to go back to the God who alone created the whole universe not Jesus and not holy spirit and off course not Mohammad.604 pages of Quran tells all human beings to worship God the only God with no partner. This fact I attached the fact before 2022 years and off course I will be 100% with what Quran guide me to do, yes to worship only God only my God who sent Jesus and Mohammad to show people the God's pathway. The life story of Jesus to make him a God or a son of God was fabricated by people who intentionally wanted people to go to bad life. Although it conflicts with all human mindsets. Here also I have to use mindsets and be reasonably 🤔 think.
Ask my self" why God wants to sacrify innocent to save criminals? If sinners are responsible and Liable for their sins and bad deeds? Why God wants not to forgive them simply and easily when they get back to him and confess and ask him not to do the sins again? We, me and you agreed that God has unlimited power capacity willing and capabilities, and God can do all what God wants.
Please don't quote what one Muslim scholar says that he believes in crucifixion. Simply because this scholar is no longer a Muslim simply because if any Muslim denies a letter or a word in Quran he or she is no longer a Muslim.
In Quran Allah Almighty God said that Jesus never crucified. The crucified person was Yahootha, the person who guided the Roman soldiers to arrest Jesus but God saved Jesus and put Yahootha instead of him
Please believe in one God, please believe in the God who created Jesus and don't worship except Allah Almighty the only God before it goes so late and you see your self in the very bad end 🙏 ✨️ 💔
HA
hassan amoud
3 years ago
Tom
You have to listen to thr right words and don't think that God wants you to loose your brain logic and mind. Since Allah Almighty is the only God and Since there is no logic in killing innocent to save criminals and Since God is fair you have no option and no excuse not to follow the Holy Quran in which you find the clear truth about your God who the most mercy on you and forgive you without killing anyone and without torturing Jesus who is the God' beloved prophet. Jesus was not crossed but he was lifted by his God who saved him from killers. Thomas confirmed that fact in Bible when he said that he was the last person who saw Jesus before he was lifted. You know may ask " who was on the cross ✝️? It is so easy,
Please listen, the man who betrayed Jesus was on the cross ✝️ he was Judah, and many evidences confirmed that fact. First, the fact of the weakness of that person, second that person was blaming God why he put him in pain, third, Peter denied that man to be Jesus. Fourth, the two crossed men beside him when the denied him to be a God or son of God, Fifth, if that man was Jesus and wanted to show people that he is a God or son of God he had to keep memories about his attributes when he was making the dead people a live but he couldn't make himself alive.
Please understand how far are you away from Almighty God Allah.
HA
hassan amoud
3 years ago
Tom
How could you believe that someone has to pay your bills if you are the sinner? Where is the logic? Where's your mindset?Don't you think? Why you think that God is killing his son or himself just to forgive you and forgive sinners? You must use your mind and your brain, use it or lose it. 100% you know that is is wrong to kill innocent to forgive criminals.
Tom, one thing you must consider is Almighty God ALLAH. GOD is the only God you must worship and that what Jesus told you he said don't worship me but worship the God who created me and you. God created universe from ZERO and will bring the universe back TO ZERO including Jesus. If you trust that God forgive you then you must only Pray for Him and not for any other intity.
HA
hassan amoud
3 years ago
Tom,
Believe me you don't have any reasonable thoughts to not become Muslim.
Believe me that God sent all prophets including Jesus Moses and Mohammad to guide people to worship God only one God. You have enough knowledge from me to be Muslim. But if you don't want. You will be responsible for your miserable hereafter when you face your God and God punishes you because you associate a partner with God.
Jesus was a man in nature and he guided you to worship God. Jesus was not a God because he was born and each person born he dies.
God never born and never dies. God exists everywhere and never disappear. Jesus appeared and disappeared don't you see the difference.
If you say that Jesus is God it means that you go the bad end. You must worship the God who created you and not Jesus.
HA
hassan amoud
4 years ago
Tom
Please let me tell you that I could quote what Allah Almighty says in Quran but I didn't please don't bring what in Bible because we need to use logic and only logic. The truth and logic and mathematics and physics and philosophy should be used in our discussions I have thousands of verses by God Almighty who confirms that no God but Allah and only God created this universe alone even me you Jesus Mohammad all of us have been created by God the whole world is in God's hands Jesus is created by God without father because Adam was created without father and without mother Jesus in Bible was a man who has been sent to people to guide them to worship God and not to worship him Jesus when he said that he was a prophet same like Moses and Mohammad and other prophets all prophets' call was to worship one God all prophets have the same message to say no God but Allah Almighty, the problem of you is that you make Jesus as God and in the same time as a son of the God, this is out of logic out of normal people thinking and out of God will because God 1- does not need son2- universe is all under God's control 3- God never suffer 4- No one can even coan see God 4- God is bigger than universe
5- God is fair and never punished innocent 6- Peter denied the person who was on the cross
7' Thomas informed people that Jesus was lifted by God
8- the thief and the criminal denied the man on the cross to be Jesus
9- God never born
10- God is eternal
11- God is Strong
12- God is unseen
13- no one can beat God
14- God never be in woman Tommy
The fatherhood relationship cannot be compared with creating relationships because fathers dies and God never dies
15- Tom is Tom and Hassan is Hassan which means no way to my soul to leave me and goes to your body our your soul to leave your body and to come to mine thus Jesus is Jesus and the Holy Spirit is a holy spirit and God is God these three different things such as me and you we can't be one intity 16- God started this universe and life alone and will make it gone as been created by him
Jesus Holy Spirit and Mary and all people and animals die
Who was born it dies
God never be born, God never delivers babies
God doesn't have any partners
HA
hassan amoud
4 years ago
Tom
First, we have to agree to disagree.
Second, I have read the Bible very carefully and I want to ask you one simple question, in all versions of the Bible, the ✝️ crosified man was wondering about his pain and torture and he was asking his Lord saying why are you torturing me? Why you are putting me in pain?
Since he was Jesus why he suddenly did not know why he was in miserable painful conditions?
Second, if he was the Almighty God, to whom he was complaining though??? Can you please explain
AG
Akshay Gagal
6 years ago
Hi bro, just tell one error of all other religions book.
If Mohammed wasn't even knew ABC or arabic letter how did he came to be the prophet of islamic world and one who made quran there are many people around us who are knowledgeable than Mohammed why can't they bring a holybook like quran
No book has proven by scientist 100% except The Holy Quran
AB
ARIYAN B. WIJAYA
5 years ago
Hi Tom
Genesis 1 tod us that earth is created before sun. Do you really believe that statement is true according to science?
UK
Usman Khan 381
7 years ago
That's good Article but my advise is that If u try the holly book of Muslims named Quran so u have find more accorate wording and Good and best forecasts about the future and the world and there is no any dout in it. And All the solutions of daily life problems is avalible in it.
So please read it and its English translation is avalible
I reasoned that if men invent a religion, their teachings will reflect human error. But, if the Creator communicates, his message will be error-free and just as consistent as the facts of nature.
You claim that Christianity does not reflect human error, if this is true, slavery isn't human error. Many claim that slavery in biblical times had different connotations and wasn't cruel, however, one has only to look at Exodus 21:20-21 to refute said claims. Exodus 21 (NASB)
20 “And if someone strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished.
21 If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property.
The idea of cruel slavery, the idea of vengeance(especially on one's own flawed creation), and the idea that God doesn't realize a slave owner's attack on the slave from a couple of days before is the cause of death. These seem very flawed to me, I'd like to see your opinion on them.
One thing that I would be very interesting in, is which Holy Bible you're following?.
There's currently over 450 english versions of the Bible, all are translated using different methods and from entirely different manuscripts
The author simply asserts "it (the Bible) was error free", and therefore it must come from the perfect Creator God he already believed in ... such flawed logic is humorous and sad. The entire article is nothing more than a logical fallacy, an Argument from Authority fallacy ... therefore it is not rational and not a proof of anything .. just blabbering from an already convinced Theist. This same lame flawed argument has been used by believers of every text based religion in existence ... so it is obviously flawed.
LV
Luuk van der Wêreld
7 years ago
The only bible that's worthwhile reading: http://skepticsannotatedbib... ...and the only theology professor I'd trust: https://humanities.exeter.a...
CS
Casey Sherman
7 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
You've got to be kidding me, right?
Either research harder or find a new hobby, because you *suck* at this one LOL
"A list of over 700 inconsistencies in the Bible"
https://www.cs.umd.edu/~mvz...
Hi Honey, I saw a number of articles listed in Google about the Sikh Guru Granth Sahib as the religious book that is held in high regard by the scientists at NASA. I assume that is what you were hoping we would find. Are you an adherent to the teachings of Sikhism? In what ways have you found the Guru Granth Sahib helpful in understanding your place in the universe? How has it compared to other religious texts that you have studied?
HS
Honey s deol
8 years ago
Just do one thing: Google this,
"Which religious book read by NASA"
Thats all
Thanks Hatem Yahia Saad for your kind words. It is good to have an honest conversation that can remain respectful despite our differences. I would enjoy sharing a meal with you and have the opportunity to speak further of the things of God.
My prayer for you is a quote from the writings of Paul to the followers of Jesus in Ephesus, "may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep His love is." (Ephesians 3:18) I know that it is His love for me that is the source of my love for others.
HY
Hatem Yahia Saad
9 years ago
Thanks Jamie for your time, patience and logical discussion. I have read your reply as promised, and thanks tho this site for allowing me to post here. The acceptance I found here is friendly and tolerant, and I must testify that i found in this site what this verse says:
'You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant' [5: 82].
Thanks.
HY
Hatem Yahia Saad
9 years ago
Jamie, i must say that this discussion is very interesting to me. You are very logical, calm, and honest. This discussion about religion is one of the few cases that focuses on the facts without anyone losing his temper. :)
Firstly, yes we are incapable of fully comprehending God's characteristics, but when He says he is most merciful, it is something we can comprehend to some extent, since humans can be merciful. Nonetheless, we are not required by God to fully comprehend His characteristics, what concerns us is that He informed us on how we should worship Him, and that is what we are required to do.
In a frank answer to your question about the Hebrew bible and the New testament, no i haven't read them, but i take your word that they are in agreement. But that is not the issue here, and here is why: the disbelievers of the Jews distorted a lot of matters to stay 'special', including their holy books, and tried to kill Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) just as their ancestors already killed other Prophets before him. However, they could not alter all of the content in the scriptures, just parts, so i know that when you read the Quran, you will have most definitely found many (but not total) common grounds between it and Christianity.
To avoid long discussions, ill say for arguments sake (to point out the real issue) that they are both coinciding and truthful. What is Christianity to Judaism? What is Jesus to Moses (peace be upon them)? The new testament is the progressive scripture to the old, yet Jews must believe in Jesus to be saved (according to Christianity). The same is in Islam, the Quran is the progressive scripture from God upon the New testament, so Christians must believe in Muhammad and move on to Islam, otherwise it would be pointless for God to send the successive scripture if people didn't have to follow it.
But in all fairness, the key issue is actually this: is Muhammad a real Prophet from God and is the Quran really God's word. This needs verification. The reality is that the Quran is a self-validating book and that is one of its miracles (through scientific evidence just discovered for example). This means that Muhammad was a real Prophet.
The problem is, however, that you are measuring what is in the Quran with historical data in the Bible, a book that the Quran stated was altered. This is illogical since the Quran should be assessed independently if it will be fairly assessed, since as you said, it says that the Biblical teachings have been altered.
I quote from wikipedia about the Nicene creed 'Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father, the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter,and promulgation of early canon law.' This was done in year 325, so isn't this a modification of a fundamental issue of Christian faith by subjecting it to settlement?
To be fully honest, i don't have a big background on the historical aspects, so I may be wrong due to misunderstanding. To me, i am more into the scientific aspects in life and not the historical, so ill say this: the Quran has 100% rightful facts about the Universe; getting historical facts wrong is beneath it. Moreover, it informed us about future worldly events that did occur, so how can it contain a mistake in historical events!?
I'm very sure that if you thoroughly revise the historical data, you will find a discrepancy in the historical facts you are saying. To say the very least, there are facts about the world war that are contradicting. Even something grand such as the fate of Hitler, some say he committed suicide by a gunshot whilst others by poison, whilst some even claimed he escaped! And this was just around 100 years ago, so imagine talking about a historical event thousands of years ago then.
Moving on to the next issue, you said that our infinite sins cannot be paid except by someone who never sinned. Firstly, in the Quran, it is unjust for anyone to bear the consequence of the sins of another soul (except if he had a role in it); which you say that Jesus underwent.
Secondly, we err and disobey God sometimes by sinning, and even if it counts as an infinite sin, it can still be simply forgiven and repayment won't be needed then. If someone borrowed 100 pounds from me, and then encounters hardships and wasn't able to pay me back in due time, and he apologizes and requests a postponement, but I then tell him it is fine I no longer want the money back, does he still owe me? For the loaner, he did not do me any injustice since I settled the matter with him without him actually repaying me. This is still justice, and God will reward me for forgiving and being merciful to one of His creatures.
That is what forgiveness is all about, letting go of my right or the injustice that has been done to me. If humans can do such a good thing, God can't do it even better?
And this is what God does, He forgives us for our sins if we repent to Him, and that how great God is, most gracious and most forgiving. Even an infinite sin can be wiped by His forgiveness, it is as simple as that, for he is continuously bestowing upon us with His favors. You see, as you mentioned, God treats us according to our flaws. He knows that we will sin, but He loves bestowing His mercy upon those who ask for it more than He loves punishing His creatures.
I'm surprised from you insistence that God must take his wrath from those that sinned whatsoever, as if that is the only option. He is much greater and gracious than that, no matter how big the sin is, it is nothing when compared to God's mercy. In fact, we are informed that it is offensive to God if we assume that we can commit a sin that is too big for His mercy to encompass when forgiveness is asked from Him.
A rebellion against God can be forgiven by God if someone repents honestly and directly to Him, and that requires from the person three points: to regret over what he did, to stop doing it, and to intend never to do it again; then God accepts the repentance and forgives without the need for sacrifices, as simple as that. We are too feeble compared to Him, so minuscule for Him to even will to completely extract His rights from us if we ask forgiveness!
God says in the Quran: Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." [53] And return [in repentance] to your Lord and submit to Him before the punishment comes upon you; then you will not be helped. [54] And follow the best of what was revealed to you from your Lord before the punishment comes upon you suddenly while you do not perceive, [55] Lest a soul should say, "Oh [how great is] my regret over what I neglected in regard to Allah and that I was among the mockers." [39: 53-56].
I think the problem in your logic occurred due to failure to distinguish that when we sin, part of it is related to violating God's orders (which can be forgiven by repentance and be wiped away), and part of it is related to another human who we harmed. This second aspect is the one that cannot be forgiven by God, for the injustice befell a human and it is his right to forgive or not; if God wipes it then the harmed individual would have been done a second injustice, but from God this time.
I really enjoyed this logical debate, but I am afraid i may not be able to continue replying because i'm too busy. I would however, very much like to hear your response and will almost definitely read it. Thanks, and i'm positive that if me, you and the author of this article keep applying our minds logically to find the truth, we will reach it.
To study some false prophecies of the Quran, visit http://answering-islam.org/...
HY
Hatem Yahia Saad
9 years ago
I like the background of your story, relating science to religion. It's a good thing to use the mind, searching for the truth logically. For arguments sake, let's say that the Bible is correct and from God, but what if a more progressive scripture from God came after the Bible that is also logical and science validates it, wouldn't everyone be supposed to follow it?
What is the Bible to the Torah, Prophet Jesus to Prophet Moses? It is the same as the Quran is to the Bible, Prophet Muhammad to Prophet Jesus (peace be upon them all). What is your verdict in the fate of the Jews since they don't believe in Jesus? Judaism was the rightful religion in a certain era, then Christianity, and now Islam. Read the Quran, find out for yourself whether it is from God or not, and evaluate the scientific facts mentioned in it.
Furthermore, i'll put aside discussing the fundamental belief that worshiping three entities still equals worshiping one for now, and focus on another thing you mentioned. You said 'By this time I clearly understood that Jesus Christ was the Creator of the universe, that He paid the price that only a sinless person could pay for all of my offenses against God'; how is it befitting that the creator pays for the sins of those whom he created!?
He could do whatever he wants and decree what he wills without having to suffer, for he is supposed to be the creator of all the rules. It's totally illogical that Jesus is the creator, he is merely a messenger from God like the messengers that preceded him and the messenger that was his successor.
Please, I urge you to use your mind and set aside your feeling good after accepting Jesus as God. A truthful religion needs to be COMPLETELY logical, not just partially or mostly logical, in addition to feeling 'right'.
There are many specialized books speaking about recently discovered scientific facts that concur with what is mentioned in the Quran since 1400 years ago, thus confirming that it is a book from the Creator. Please get a hold of one of them, or search for this information from the internet. I have compiled a book containing the logical arguments in the Quran if you are interested, which sheds light on just some examples of these scientific discoveries:
https://www.xinxii.com/en/t...
Or contact me for a free copy no problem
RamAllahJesusOankar, your post was abbreviated because of vulgarity but I think I get your drift. Please read several of Jamie's posts. And I refer you to Job and ask where specifically are there scientific errors in the Bible?
Ra
RamAllahJesusOankar
9 years ago
http://rationalwiki.org/wik...
I verified it all well. And I think even being a "scientist", the partiality you (OP) showed towards the Bible being error-free scientifically is, no offence meant, [expletive removed].
Hi Razi, it is never a useful thing to judge a worldview by its's worst claimants, but rather by looking at its message and analyzing its logical cohesion and its ability to reflect reality. Just as you point to examples within history of those who claimed to be Christians and yet lived lives contrary to the standards that Jesus set, one could also look at history and point out atheists who committed atrocities. But as a follower of Jesus I can take you to the message of Jesus and point out how those so called Christians did not reflect the character of Jesus or His teachings. I don't know that the same can be said for atheism: you yourself have stated that everyone's morals are their own, so how are you able to condemn the actions of atheistic regimes when they were just living out their own set of morals?
Your claim that everyone's worldviews are the product of the culture in which they grow up in just does not fit the evidence that is seen in abundance around us. If that were the case, you and I would be in agreement on the person of Jesus Christ, assuming that you grew up in a "Christian" nation. It would also mean that my dear friend from Morocco would still be a Muslim as his parents are, rather than a follower of Jesus, as he is today. The fact that the Western world is seen as "Christian" would have been illogical because they come from pagan roots, where Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jewish man. The reality of the world around us is that many people make choices of their worldview based on a much more complicated basis than just the culture in which they were raised.
I too am an imperfect individual. I have thoughts, attitudes and actions that are self-centred, hurtful, and sinful. I don't need the Bible to point that out to me, but what the Bible does explain is that while God created humanity in His perfect image we have rebelled against Him and that image of God within has been marred by our sin and self-centredness. That is why we need God to rescue us because if we try to use our imperfect nature to fix ourselves we are going to end up with further brokenness. Using technology as an example, if I try to clean viruses off of my laptop with a corrupted virus detection software, I am going to end up with a greater problem than what I began with. Jesus, being the perfect, incorruptible one, is able to come into my life and lead me on a path that leads to the perfection that God had originally intended for me.
That is the 'new life' that Jesus promised. He said, "Come to Me all of you who are weary, and weighed down; I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28) What He has done for us is to die in our place to pay the penalty of our sin so we no longer have that weighing us down. He then offers to lead the course of our lives so that we are no longer captive to our pride and self-centredness but instead are able to live as we were originally created, to be in relationship with Him, and enjoying the fullness of His love and truth. Jesus said, "I have come that they may have life in all of its fullness." (John 10:10) That new life is offered to all of humanity and is received by anyone who no longer trusts in themself but trust fully on Jesus alone.
If you would like to know more about how to receive that new life from Jesus have a look at this page http://powertochange.com/di...
Haha thank you roccoo, finally someone with a mind around here
Just LMAO !!
Couldn't you find another "smarter" way to convoy your msg or let's say (missionary propaganda) ?
Don't make people laugh on you when reading that [ I was amazed at the quantity of historical and scientific (i.e., testable) material it included and at the detail of this material] hahahaa.. I can't believe that.
Jamie, was it not the catholic church who supported Nazism and its efforts, again read history. The bible simply cannot be gods perfect standards because of the things "good Christians" have done with his message in mind, and if that was gods perfect standards he is no better than human nature. You are doing exactly as I said and thought you would, where one agrees with you, he is divinely right, if not, then he has his own morals, narrow-minded as ever. My closing statement is actually better evidence that Jesus is no helper of the current situation because what I am saying requires you put your bible down and approach your real world problems in a progressive way. What I know is right is my own heart and beliefs, God would have little to do with that I assure you, since I do not include him nor base his so called "son" in my decisions, yet I am happy, free, you couldn't tell me otherwise, and that's my experience, yours is different, you are a different person and think differently because of the indoctrination that you refer to as the divine plane, had you been in a Muslim country, you would be preaching Islam, if in china, Buddhism, if in Israel, Judaism, simply because the society you base your personality on and your beliefs on is likely Christian, does not make Christianity and more divine. Jamie god did not create me in his perfect image, i am not perfect i know this for fact, you are not either you should know this too. Please explain what you mean by this "new life", God does not demonstrate free will at all since hell is promised to those who deny his message, a hell he created by the way, more hypocritical than divine if you ask me.
Hi Razi, it is not that I don't grasp what you are stating in your posts, but I do disagree with what you are stating. If morality is subjective then you cannot say that a man like Hitler was evil. He just had different morals than you do. But as you have pointed out, there are many atrocities that different individuals have done that were most certainly evil.
You asked what God's standards are: His perfect character is the standard. There is no moral code that He measures up to because He is that moral code. He does not transgress that moral code because it would be against His own character. Since the Bible is God communicating to humanity, the morality presented in the Bible is His perfect standard. As much as other religious texts reflect that morality, they speak truth, but if they present a morality that it different from the Bible they reflect their own morality, not God's standard. And as they present that a person can achieve their own salvation through enlightenment, ritual, or by adhering to a moral code, rather than depending on the grace of God, they teach something contrary to what God has stated so they are leading people further away from God. Your closing statement is an example of such a statement, "God cannot help us only we must help ourselves." That is the sentiment of all other worldviews which strongly suggests that Jesus message is the truth.
I would ask you again, do you recognize within your own heart that conflict between what you know is right and yet doing what is wrong? You are not unique; we all face that reality within ourselves. That is the result of being made in the image of God but being trapped in rebellion against Him. God allows us to choose to love Him or not because true love requires the freedom of choice. If I cannot choose not to love God then my attitude toward Him is not truly love. So in His love, God created us with that choice, knowing that we would fall away, but then sacrificed Himself to show the depth of His love for us. Through His death we are given life; and through his resurrection we are now empowered to live out HIs purposes for us. Not everyone chooses to receive His loving offer of grace and so continue in rebellion against Him. Only those who put their trust in Him actually receive the new life that He offers to all.
Hi Tammy, I can't speak for Dr Hugh Ross and his reasons to discount Islam, but personally I see that the claims of the sacred writings of the Quran do not measure up to the message of the Bible. When comparing the two texts the Bible is superior in historical accuracy, prophetic reliability, and in its answer to the human condition.
The historical accuracy of the Bible is unparalleled in all sacred texts. The people, places and events described in the Bible are consistently backed up in archeological discovery. That is not to say that everything in the Bible has been verified by archeological finds, but there has never been evidence that has contradicted the accounts of the Bible. The Quran has many anomalies which undermine its historical accuracy. One example is in the Quran's account of the Golden Calf found in Surah 20. This is one of the common events described by both the Bible and the Quran when Moses was on Mt Sinai to receive the Law from God. The Israelites got impatient waiting for him created a golden calf that they could worship instead of God. In the Quran though, the one who led the people astray was a "Samaritan". The problem with this is that the city of Samaria was founded by King Omrri about 530 years after this event. There are many other such anachronisms in the Quran that make it's authenticity questionable (http://crossexamined.org/ca... Ask any Middle East archeologist which text he depends on for investigating the history of the area and the answer will most certainly be the Bible.
Prophetic accuracy also favours the Bible. The Quran's prophetic claims are vague with little content to actually measure their accuracy. The claim in Surah 30:1-5 that Islam will be victorious over its enemies gives no time frame or clear description of who its enemies are or anything that could be used to determine if it is accurate. The Bible, on the other hand, is replete with specified prophetic utterances that get as specific as naming of the pagan king Cyrus by Isaiah over 150 years before that king came to the throne (Isaiah 44). Daniel's prophetic description of the nations who were to rule over the nation of Israel matches so perfectly to the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman Empires that many critics claim that it was written close to the time of Jesus. That criticism cannot be used when looking at the prophecies of Isaiah about the life and death of Jesus though (http://www.agapebiblestudy.... The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls established that the text of Isaiah was written long before Jesus was born and yet the prophetic accuracy of the description there is astounding (See Isaiah 53 as an example).
The way the Bible describes the human condition and offers a solution is far superior to any of the sacred texts. In the Bible we see that humanity is uniquely created in the image of God so that we can be in relationship with Him. But our choice to rebel against Him puts us at conflict within ourselves: we innately know what is right but yet consistently choose to please ourselves at the expense of others. All religions agree that there is something fundamentally flawed with humanity but then present what we have to do in order to repair that which is broken. Islam's answer are the 5 Pillars: 1) Shahada - faith in the Oneness of Allah; 2) Salat - following the ritual of daily prayers; 3) Zakat: charity to the poor; 4) Sawm - fasting; 5) Hajj - pilgrimage to Mecca. By engaging in these activities one is able to pay the penalty for the sins committed and then look to Allah to accept you into Paradise. Buddhism depends on reaching a level of enlightenment by breaking connection with desire and becoming one with all. Other religions demand following rituals which are geared to appease God or gods. The Bible says there is nothing that a human can do to pay the penalty for their rebellion against God, but that we are dependent on the grace of God to save us. That is what Jesus did when He died on the cross: He paid the penalty for our rebellion and then rose from the dead so that He can now empower us to live in relationship with God as we were originally created to do. There is nothing that we do expect by faith, trust that Jesus' death is sufficient to redeem us, and live every moment in dependence on His leading in our lives. In all other religions humans reach up to God trying to be worthy of Him, but in Christianity God reaches out to humanity in love to restore our relationship with Him.
So Tammy where has your search for truth led you?
Jamie, you are not grasping what I am trying to tell you, I urge you to go back and read everything I have said so far with care and absolute focus. Morality is relative to the individual, what you think is right is not necessarily what the guy next to you thinks is right, most people would disagree with you just like most would agree with you, it's all so relative. We accuse others of transgressing morality because in reality they are transgressing what WE think is right or what the society we have lived in has raised us up to believe. I do not need to list out for you the many atrocities mankind has committed, you would likely disagree, please Google it or try opening a history book, you will find no shortage I assure you. How I can make the difference between what's good and what's bad is much like you, good holds benefit for everyone whilst bad is likely to pertain only to one person's or group's individual interests for starters. If humankind can rebel so openly against god he isn't perfect or powerful at all, and what are Gods standards? the standards of the bible? what about the other books? what about the gods of other religions? how can you sit there and say they aren't right? whatever you say, they would likely have a counter against yours, this is what I mean by relative. I am sorry if this offends you but Jesus's death on the cross benefited humanity next to nothing, society is just as hypocritical, just as fixed in its way, and just as hateful of differences. We've merely adopted another degree of social norm dubbing it religion, otherwise focus on others, yourself and the world around you, no one is a complete Christian/Muslim/Jew/etc.. if God wanted humanity's benefit I am sure someone of his stature would have conjured up a better plan than to needlessly sacrifice his only son. I already told you God cannot help us only we must help ourselves, the entire world can come together to pray for an end to world hunger and war, but guess what? unless we are willing to do something about it, no help will come but from humankind.
HI Razi, I think the examples you are pointing to (capital punishment, abortion, theft to feed starving children) show a conflict between morals (i.e. is it right to end the life of someone who has committed murder, does a woman's autonomy of her body include the life of her unborn child, is it alright to steal to save a life) but most people agree that ending human life is wrong, and that taking something that does not belong to you is wrong. Those are universal morals that we all know innately.
If morals are a personal choice why do we accuse others who transgress morality? You accuse humankind for atrocities that rival the devil; on what grounds to you make such an accusation when everyone is free to choose whatever morals they like? If there are no moral absolutes how can you make a moral judgement on others?
I am glad you asked about how we can be made in the image of God when humanity has committed so many atrocities. The Bible teaches that the first humans were created in the image of God, but they chose to rebel against Him. That distorted the perfect image of God within humanity so that now instead of living up to His moral standards we choose our own way. I would suggest that matches what we see in our lives: a knowledge and desire to do what is right, but a natural tendency to do what is selfish and morally wrong. Our only hope is for God to rescue us from ourselves and transform our hearts. Jesus death on the cross paid the penalty for our moral rebellion against God and He now leads and guides those who follow Him to live a life that matches God's standard. Christians still lose their focus on following Jesus and so still act immorally at times, but when they allow Jesus to lead them they reflect His perfect character.
How do you explain the moral divide within your own heart between the things you know are right and yet still don't always do?
Wow! Interesting! ! I am so happy I found your site. One question though, Islam being the world's second largest religion, what made you rule that one out?
Actually Jamie, you are wrong again, morality is different for different people, for example the idea of death row and execution of criminals, we find that the better half of America is greatly divided on this issue. Another is abortion, some of my friends think that the baby is a life and shouldn't be killed no matter the consequence or affect, while some of my friends think it should entirely be the women's choice as to what happen to her child at any given time during pregnancy. Of course common standards match, its pretty obvious everyone wants to be treated right, but everyone's concept of how others should be treated varies, as i mentioned before and i have already told you that the bible is no book to be talking about morality when it has things written down, that clearly take to different faces of morality same as most religious books of the Abrahamic faiths. I see you brought up that old saying "gods perfect image, gods perfect children", Jamie don't you sit there and tell me we are in gods perfect image when the level of atrocity humankind is responsible for rivals the so called devil, and most of these atrocities were committed with "good moral intention". I would also care to mention that intelligence, the basis for such an insane point of view, varies greatly among several species on the planet, what some animals are capable of doing on a regular basis is very hard if not impossible for humankind. I already said mankind has morals that benefit mankind at the hour of suffer or challenge, for example any man can speak of robbery being a sin, but you will be surprised how many would jump to steal food or worse, for their hungry children or dying, sick spouses. Having no moral boundaries alone does not constitute mental illness or deficiency, and to believe such is just plain ignorance, what you view as moral could be a disaster to somebody else. We are products of the world we are brought up in, and when you talk about something as widely debatable as the concept of morality there is no single divine right and wrong, to live your life in such a black and white picture is quite harmful, it is important to be open-minded about all situations, otherwise conflict is bound to start anywhere.
Hi Razi, if morality is subjective then we would see a great variety of different sets of morals in people. Taste is a subjective thing: I know what I think tastes good but my children have a different idea of what tastes good to them. I look around the world and see great differences of what different people think is tasty. There are no 'taste absolutes' that are common across the world. That is not the case with morality: there are common standards of what is right and wrong. The Bible explains that such objective morality exists because there is an all knowing, all powerful, perfectly good God who is the standard of what is morally good, and He has created humanity in His image so that we carry that awareness of what is morally good within us.
You suggest that every human has their own set of moral standards. Is that what you observe or would you agree that there are standards that are consistent in all humans? In fact, when we see someone who has no moral boundaries we recognize that they have a mental deficiency and treat their condition. That indicates our understanding that morality is a objective truth, not a subjective choice. Wouldn't you agree?
Jamie, I judge my basis of good based on the person I consider myself to be much like yourself, for you see morality is what the individual makes it out to be, this is why the scientific method cannot answer moral questions, because everyone's ideas on justice and equality very, and there is no set good. As I explained before basing your morality entirely on ancient scripture, i.e. the bible, is flawed at best as such scriptures command violence as well as good, as i pointed out earlier. If we all followed scripture to the point like most religiously countries do, we might initially make a good difference, but inevitably lead ourselves to further suffering, again as most religious countries do, you can argue the geopolitical situation so far, however nationality rarely influences human kind as much as belief in superstition. As for morality without god being futile to determine, I regret to inform you Jamie that you are wrong again, in fact there is only more purpose to be good without a god, as if there is not a god, you are not commanded commit action the intellectual would deem hypocritical, this is partly the reason we see atheistic countries like Norway, Denmark and Sweden become largely secular, educated and peaceful, more so compared to other countries of the same or greater economic and political magnitude. There exists a study known as Maslow's hierarchy, i encourage you to study about it, what Maslow theorized was the needs of every human in order to achieve happiness and psychological completion in the world, at the top we see self actualization, which in clear terms is the ability to connect with other human beings i.e. to be kind, to be empathetical, to relate and find a purpose within. Now we let me be clear Jamie, please understand that by itself no religion is peaceful nor violent, it all depends on what you bring to it, the person you are affects the religion you follow, if you're a violent person your Christianity will be violent, however if you're peaceful, loving and caring, then so too is your Christianity, in fact, we realize that religions are more human then we make them out to be. Now the question of direction comes to mind, the cold hard fact is, people are like animals, though the smartest, but animals none the less, we do what we believe benefits us best, it does not matter where it is written, or who said it, if we cannot make sense of it logically, or instinctively we will not act on it. There exist three parts in the conscious and subconscious mind to help us with these decisions, they are the ID, the Ego and the Superego; Wants, reality and morality, these determine the people we are and the decisions we make. So i do regret to inform you that it is not Jesus directing you life but you and your subconscious mind making those decisions and making you the person you are trying to be. Perhaps the message of Jesus is so profound because of love, we find that Muslims have similar characters in their lives, whom they revere as Mohammad's family, starting with Ali, I encourage you to read about them as well, i assure you that you will find striking similarity. I end my word by reminding you that God has nothing to do with who we are, we are who we chose to be, do not be ambiguous in your life believing that god is directing it, such a thought process will only serve to harm you friend
Thanks Razi, I appreciate your willingness to share your ideas with me, and your good wishes. I agree with your emphasis on being a good human, helping others and making the most of every moment, but I wonder on what basis you would judge what being good is? You seem to have put a lot of weight on what can be known through the scientific method, and yet you also agree that it is unable to help us determine what is morally good. And yet I would suggest that generally, all of us have an innate knowledge of what is good: we know that taking advantage of others is wrong, that being dishonest is wrong, and that killing others is wrong. So we know that there is a moral standard, but if we depend on scientific method to know what it is or why it is there, we will get no answer, just as you have stated.
In a universe that has been created by an all knowing, all powerful, perfectly good God it logically follows that He would be the standard of what is morally right, and that we would be morally accountable to Him because we owe our existence to Him. However, in a universe that is the result of random chaos there would be no standard and no morality would exist. We wouldn't even have a standard to judge what is good and what is evil. There may be people who subscribe to that worldview but at the same time recognize that there is a moral standard that they try to live up to and expect the same of others around them. They believe one thing but live out another. That makes me question the accuracy of their worldview.
What resonates with me in the message of Jesus Christ is that there is an all knowing, all powerful, perfectly good, Creator God who is our moral standard, but one which we are unable to live up to. We are not perfectly good and are actually trapped in our rebellion against God. But He has created us for the purpose of being in a relationship with Him where we are able to testify to His love, power, wisdom, and grace. So He sacrificed Himself in order to pay the penalty for our rebellion against Him, and He now lives within those who put their trust in Him, guiding them to live out His purposes and His perfection. As I investigate that message I see that it lines up with the reality I see around me: humans have an innate moral compass, but all too often we follow a different path and end up doing things we know are wrong. Even those who are really good people still do things that take advantage of others in order to have their own desires met. I know that I cannot live a good life on my own, but I need someone to help me do what is right. As I have put my trust in Jesus I have experienced His guiding hand leading my choices and changing the way that I look at life and other people. I am still not perfect because often I choose to follow my own desires rather than follow Him, but He disciplines me and then guides me back to His path and purposes. His message is the only one that I have seen that best explains the conflict I see in myself, in the world around me, and has the most profound transformation on people's lives.
Perhaps, I have misunderstood your earlier comments: are you able to determine what is morally good? What is the standard that you use for your own life? How does that standard then apply to others? Are they also morally responsible to adhere to the same standard you use? Does your worldview match what you see around you and effectively lead you to live a life that is morally good?
Jamie you must realize the feat ahead of us, you ask me to explain a universe which even no NASA scientist, astronomer, or priest can possibly hope to know or understand, we can only observe a small portion and make estimations and even those estimations are profoundly questionable when considering the scope of things, so to be fair to you I cannot answer that that, but any logical mind should know damn well that no earthly religion can assume to either, this can be measured through scientific method, as I have shown you. However now you bring up purpose, a question of morality that even with the existence of a god, would still be a very shaky subject. So unfortunately morality cannot be answer by scientific method. The best advice and view I can give you here friend is, be a good human, help others, and make every moment worth living, because truth is we do not know what happens after, and perhaps this is why many of us stick to these ideas rather dogmatically, we fear the unknown, it's only human nature you see. There is no destiny, the present cannot exist as every moment we live and think about is technically the past, therefore the only way to affect the future is to change your past, and put the mistakes behind you. We are given several paths in life, and each path opens up several more, whichever one we take is our choice, as each path is just as meaningful as the next, there is no path is in life that is right and means well for everyone, and there is no path in life that means bad our destruction upon everything, therefore we can see that there simply is no divine destiny, its all so variable, life simply is not wrong and right, its all about choices relative to the individual or group. whether or not you see this as more proof of god, is your choice friend, but realize this, we do not need god to have a conscience, we do not need a god to feel the difference between pain and happiness, between suffering and love, believe what so ever you wish, i cannot stop you for what is religion in the end but a way to cope, just know that you are a very special being, at least on earth as you have the power to create and destroy, to hate and to love, these a very powerful abilities indeed, we have no definable purpose we have been set out in this mystery to find our own, i wish you luck with yours!
So Razi, what is your worldview? How do you explain the origin of the universe, the purpose of humanity and the destiny of our lives? Have you been able to measure that by scientific method?
Hello Jamie! thank you so much for responding to me, i was beginning to think I was left out, so thanks for the encouragement!
To begin my argument let's start with the scientific method Step 1: Ask a question, do any of the holy books hold any weight?
Step 2: Do background research: there are several major religions in the world, each with their own set of divine rules, enclosed in ancient texts ( Shruti, The bible, the torah, the Quran, Doa de Jing, Analects of Confucius, Dhammapada, and the Guru Granth Sahib, to name some). Now when asking such a question as the divine existence of some higher spiritual energy i.e. god, in order to call it a proper use of the scientific method , we must agree to test all hypothesis in order to find the best one, because fact of the matter is we can debate all day long but which ever book is right is entirely relative to the individual interpreting it, so our author found that Christianity believable, we can still argue that if he had properly studied each religious text, he might find something even better!
Step 3: Construct a hypothesis : for your and only your sake jamie lets construct Christianity and the bible as a hypothesis, could the bible hold any weight?
Step 4: Test the hypothesis: we see moral dilemmas come up a lot in human nature, one of the greatest accomplishments of our bible is that it seeks to answer and put these moral dilemmas at rest, now, nothing teaches us about an idea better than its history and effect on the world, Christianity is the world's largest religion by far, it's done this by keeping its humble origins a secret under roman cruelty and going to to spread in the very world that at first condemned it, i am speaking of course of Europe, centuries passed and we find that through technologies such as the printing press and through the vision of radicals such as Martin Luther, it evolves to fit a wide array of people with a rather clear message, love for god, Jesus Christ and all mankind, however as we decipher this enigma further we run into problems, the first being that for such a peaceful message, it was undoubtly taught by a good amount of violence, i speak of course of the old testament, the crusades, the dictatorship of holy mother church, the ages of imperialism and a constant struggle with Judaism and Islam, two of Christianity's biggest rivals through the ages, but this isn't a competition see, for those ideas have their own demons, when we open the bible we finds that it too is capable of committing evil in the name of god; "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13), "If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people." (Leviticus 20:18), "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." ( Exodus 21: 20-21), "To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." ( Genesis 3: 16) to name a few,
Step 5: analyze data, draw conclusions: please do not say these are taken out of context, bottom line is they demonstrate clear support for hatred against gay, misogyny, and slavery. where the bible commands you to be good one second and violent in another verse all in a desperate attempt to shape yourself in gods perfect image does not make a good book, and certainly not a good god. where this book and its religion has cause good, we must also agree that it has caused just as much harm, whether or not you agree that this was gods plan is just arguing semantics, a perfect god does not let his perfect sons perfect message be corrupted otherwise he is either feeble, or nonexistent, thus the scientific method requires me to form a new hypothesis and try again as you said
As for your predictable universe, it is only so in the scope of your mind, the universe is random and quite chaotic in its endeavors , this can be proved by the black hole theory, supernovas as well as the constant creation and destruction of planets, stars, and galaxies a random and constantly variable pace, and if you believe in chaos theory then you find that it is also the case for earth, never the less the truth is we live on a dying, geothermic, unstable rock that's been plagued by mass extinctions, drifting endlessly in a dying and devoid solar system, whether or not you believe it is god's plan is a product of how far your belief in the unexplainable goes, as for Mr. Newton, he only defined the stepping stoned in physics, but in light of the new calculus theories being proven and the work of scientists much more capable such as Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkins coupled with the ever expanding vastness and disorganized complexity of the universe, we can safely say that we have much to learn
Hi Razi, thanks for taking the time to join in the conversation and add your ideas. Can you describe your process of following a proper scientific method that led you to conclude that the Bible is not true? We all remember from our grade school science days that the scientific method consists of the following steps: 1. Observe some aspect of the universe; 2. Invent a tentative description, called a hypothesis, that is consistent with what you have observed; 3. Use the hypothesis to make predictions; 4. Test those predictions by experiments or further observations and modify the hypothesis in the light of your results; 5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until there are no discrepancies between theory and experiment and/or observation. Is that the process you have used to investigate different sacred texts like the Bible? I would be very interested to hear how you were able to apply the scientific method to the Bible and come to your conclusions.
One thing that I find interesting is how scientific investigation depends on the consistency and predictability of the natural order--we can make calculations about gravity because we know that it will always act in the same way. Still we have not yet been able to determine why the universe is so ordered and predictable. If our universe began out of the chaos of the Big Bang, how did it become so ordered and predictable? No one has been able to answer why the universe is so finely tuned for life when there is no natural reason that it should be. I think it is telling that many pioneering scientists held a belief in a divine Creator--perhaps not the God of the Bible but all powerful, all-knowing supernatural being who created the universe with order. That is why they had confidence that the scientific method could be used to investigate the natural world since it had been created with order that could be predicted. Johann Kepler, the German scientist who first proposed the laws of planetary motion, who described his scientific work as, "Thinking God's thoughts after Him." (http://www.icr.org/article/... Isaac Newton wrote in his book Principia, " This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being" (http://www.icr.org/article/... I guess when King David wrote, "The heavens declare the glory of God..." (Psalm 19:1) he was on to something.
I look forward to hearing back from you Razi.
You are no scientist! All you did was read one of the many holy books and already you fell victim to its words, granted they may be quite intoxicating but its clear that the bible is filled with inconsistencies, therefore two things are possible, you didn't apply proper scientific method making you an improper scientist or you already had quite alot of christian dogma filled in you making this article mundane, there are several reasons for grades dropping and quality of life dropping, one being confusion and hesitation by "thinking" we can answer the deep questions, look I'm not questioning your ability as a scientist (though no one can be called a proper scientist without using the scientific method and testing all possiblities) but please do not post crap like this to further confuse people if you did not try everything your only doing the world a diservice
You are no scientist! All you did was read one of the many holy books and already you fell victim to its words, granted they may be quite intoxicating but its clear that the bible is filled with inconsistencies, therefore two things are possible, you didn't apply proper scientific method making you an improper scientist or you already had quite alot of christian dogma filled in you making this article mundane, there are several reasons for grades dropping and quality of life fropping, one being confusion and hesitation by "thinking" we can answer the deep questions, look I'm not questioning your ability as a scientist (though no one can be called a proper scientist without using the scientifuc method and testing all possiblities) but please do not post crap like this to further confuse people your only doing the world a diservice
Faris, in his article, Dr. Ross tells a familiar story of how people who genuinely pursue truth about Christianity come to a solid faith in Jesus as the Son of God. You suggested that Jesus never claimed to be Divine but here are 5 instances where He either said He was God (Divine) or that He was the Son of God. There are more but these are clear.
Before the crucifixion, Jesus is on trial and the chief priest asks Jesus to answer – under oath – if He is the Son of God. The high priest said to Him, 'I charge you under oath by the living God: 'Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.' 'Yes, it is as you say,' Jesus replied." (Matthew 26:63-64). Here Jesus said "Yes" to the High Priest who asked if He was "the Christ, the Son of God."
Speaking about Abraham to some Jews, Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." Then they sought to kill Him because it was very well known that "I AM" is God's name for Himself. So here Jesus said that He was "I AM", saying that He was God. You can see this at Ex 3:14 as follows: And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
Again, after Jesus told some Jews that "I and My Father are one." they again sought to stone Him and He asked "Do you say of Him (referring to Himself) whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" So here He clearly declared that He had said He was the Son of God and also that He was "one" with the Father and thus Divine.
Again, after His resurrection when He met with the disciple, Thomas, John records at John 20:28-29 that Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Here, Jesus did not correct Thomas and then went on to tell Thomas basically that he (Thomas) believed correctly when he described Jesus as both Lord and God.
And as far as Adam being a "better Son of God", we are well aware that Adam and Eve sinned so blatantly that they had to be cast out of God's presence in the Garden of Eden. See Genesis 3:17-24.
Faris, I pray that you will continue your pursuit of truth by open-mindedly checking out these references and that you come to the same place Dr. Ross did, acknowledging Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
FM
Faris Mohammed
9 years ago
Jesus (pbuh) was born without a male intervention. If this fact make you think that Jesus is God, then who would be Adam(pbuh)??.. (We all know that Adam(pbuh) has no mother and father) ..Adam(pbuh) better God??
If you claim Jesus(pbuh) as Son Of God, then why Adam(pbuh) is not better Son Of God??
Jesus (pbuh) did many miracles..Moses(pbuh) and Abraham(pbuh) also did many miracles..
Jesus says in bible that he cast out devils with the permission of Father. Many prophets did many miracles.
There is no a single unequivocal or unambiguous statement in the complete Bible where Jesus(pbuh) himself says that he is god or worship him.
Simply Jesus (pbuh) never claimed Divinity. It is well clear from the bible.
Harris--
Could you be wrong about everything you claim to know?
According to Christianity, the God of the Bible is the source of all knowledge. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." Proverbs 1:7
According to Islam, Allah is the source of all knowledge. "He (Allah) is the All Hearing, the All Knowing." Surah 6:115
Muslims believe that all knowledge is gained through revelation from Allah in the Qur'an, the Hadiths, and the Book, i.e., the Bible. So how do you reconcile:
1) the Qur'an's claim that Allah deceived Muhammed (Surah 8:43-44), with Qur'an's claim that Allah is Truth? (Surah 22:62)
2) the Qur'an's claim that the Bible (which predates the Qur'an) was unchanged at the time of Muhammad (Surah 10:94, 35:31), with your claim that the Bible has been changed?
3) the Qur'an's claim that the words of Allah cannot be changed (Surah 6:34,115), with your claim that the words of Allah in the Bible (Surah 6:114) have changed?
THE PROBLEM
Contradictions amount to lying, as opposing statements cannot both be true. The above questions expose contradictions in your source of knowledge, which means that you could be wrong about everything you claim to know!
Just as breathing requires air, thinking requires knowledge. Without knowledge, nothing makes sense.
WHAT IS YOUR ONLY HOPE IN THIS LIFE AND THE NEXT? THE ANSWER IS JESUS CHRIST.
You were created in God's image to glorify and enjoy Him forever. When you sin, you fail to imitate God as He commands and lie about who He is. God alone is good and the final standard of truth. All have fallen short of His standard and deserve eternity in Hell. This is not because of the severity of the sin, but because of the goodness of God. Since God is perfect, no sin can be in His presence, and His perfect justice demands a perfect sacrifice to atone for sin.
THE GOOD NEWS:
Jesus Christ, who is God the Son, came into the world as a man to live in perfect obedience to God the Father. With his death on the cross, Jesus became the perfect sacrifice, cancelling the debt against sinners by taking their full punishment upon Himself. Three days later, He rose from the dead, defeating sin and death, and earning eternal life for all those who trust in Him. Through His love and mercy, Jesus satisfied God's justice and is the only way to peace, assurance, forgiveness, and salvation. To be reconciled to God, you must repent (turn from sin) and trust that Jesus died for your sin. Your sins will be forgiven, God will see you as perfect in Christ, and God the Holy Spirit will make you a new creation with a redeemed soul for eternity, and redeemed reasoning NOW. The only answer and only hope in this life and the next is Jesus Christ.
Vishai--You indicate that all of the religious books are on an equal level as far as their truth and what they teach. However, since all the world's religions teach something different about who god is (if they teach about god at all), and their idea of what it takes to reach some sort of heaven, nirvana, or whatever are different, how can they call be right?
You mention that it would be better to "meet God by YOURSELF." How does one do that, and how would they know if it was actually God they were contacting?
You also say talk about a person being good-hearted with no bad/ill ways. Do you know anyone who has never done anything bad such as lying, stealing, disobeying their parents, or having bad thought? If not, then what good will trying to be "good" do?