This is complete and utter nonsense.
TN
Tak Nomura
4 years ago
For me, Jesus came too late in human history. Also, I trust the evolution of living things, and humans are just primates that continues to evolve with the environment. I see nothing wrong with humans believing in gods and the after life, because it provides them with some comfort while living. I'm not here to argue with half the human population that believes in their god(s).
Question. You said that science doesn't explain morality how does religion explain it. Back in the bible there is a lot of rape and killing? Did god say its bad. And yiu assume everyone has morality, morality wasn't here for most of the time, it changed over time look back in the old america, raping slaves was fine, judging slaves was fine. But the bible was around before then correct? So how does the bible explain mortality?
LS
Lakesha Scout
4 years ago
The problem with what people call science is that its limited to the temporary human condition. Its actually not science at all, in reality, its the discovery of what already exists in the majority of cases. Science today is based in religious ideology, only accepting theories/postulations by those who religiously adhere to Aristotle or Hegelian doctrine and dialectics. Theories such as Climate Change, which is based upon Hegelian, Karl Marx theory of metabolic rift, as well as theories which blame behavior upon the outward appearance of ones epidermis are examples of such dialectic based thought.
I find it amusing that people who align themselves with Aristotle/Hegelian religion, always attack Christianity. Worse they don't understand it and place it in the realm they define as religion. Since Aristotle/Hegelian believers only observe the world via dialectic tainted glasses, they cannot understand anything that exists prior to or beyond the Human condition, and Human physical world.
They cannot comprehend as the Pharisees (most Kenites) of the Hebrew temple, that Jesus Christ is identified to have been in the garden with Adam the 8th day man. They fail to understand how Jesus Christ walked with Abraham.
John 8 Jesus in his exchange with the Kenites .. the sons of Cain...
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
People limited by the flesh condition cannot understand these words not a world prior to nor after that flesh condition. But those same who only see within the realm of the flesh human, proclaim themselves to be the wiser and the discover of things which they call science, and proclaim to be truth.
The Apostle Paul, probably the wisest beside the prophet Daniel to ever live among flesh mankind, explained the details of the spiritual/human condition to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 15), in detail, yet the so called scientists of Aristotle/Hegelian religious belief reject Paul's specific explanation, even though its bound up in fact.
There is but one blue ball which supports specifically flesh life in the universe, it is therefore an anomaly and not a random occurrence. It exists specifically for its purpose.
All human life upon that blue ball is factually temporary and has been forever. Its intent was always to be temporary.
These are observable and irrefutable facts, not assumptions and not ideals based upon supposition, or dialectic based opinions.
Therefore if there is but one blue ball and if its primary purpose is to support flesh existence, and if that flesh existence be temporary, what is one to surmise from these irrefutable facts?
The simple design of the giraffe, speaks with solid evidence against the dialectic based notion of evolution. that first drink of cool water would have caused its cranial area to explode, except for the fact its blood pressure is controlled when it bends down. That is a discovery made by mankind, by a medical community, not one proclaimed in biblical texts. There are many other animals which defy the dialectic based ideal of evolution... Yet that dialectic based ideal is accepted by so called science, as fact....
Science has yet to explain what they refer to as Near Death Experience (NDE), because they cannot explain and existence beyond human life, which is well documented by many who have experienced this condition. People who practice yoga or who become extremely relaxed have what they call and out of body experience (myself included). But science throws off these things, because the soul extends beyond their bounds of reason.
Science (aka discovery) as been a great benefit to mankind. Proving theory and postulate to be truth and having it become truth via peer review is very beneficial to mankind and their understanding of this world and the flesh condition.. However ideals based upon dialectics which formed in antithesis and referred to as science, are of no beneficial to flesh mankind. No where has that revelation become more true than with the current pandemic, where the scientific facts of immunity have been tossed away and only the dialectic based antithesis of inoculation accepted, even though factually, inoculation relies specifically upon the human immune system, in order to be successful. This is what we commonly refer to as "Junk Science"
I personally don't think that belief in Christ and our Father are exclusive and unrelated to scientific discovery. I think people are given gifts of understanding with which causes us to rely upon each other. Think about the person who can explain in truth and with fact the biological realm, but who cannot create a symphony or play a musical instrument. Or consider the opposite of that statement.
People understanding complex things in relation to the human condition are necessary, but such understanding is not in an of itself the only truth. Science is therefore necessary understanding and valuable to the human experience and in many cases a blessing from our Father. I for one am very happy to have my physicians and their biological understanding. But biology is not the end of understanding, and all things biological have yet to be discovered. I understand the human condition to be a voluntary one, where the soul is given a chance to realign themselves with our Father, as his children. This by no means indicates we are perfect, it means we start to understand our role over time and his blessings and our purpose for being human, which is to secure forgiveness and reunite with our Father, and provide support for our human Brothers and Sisters, via the gifts we are given.
I did not gain this insight immediately, It took me 45 years to figure it out, and that was only after an epiphany and a prior life of being self absorbed.... Go to the bench therefore, before day break, and watch it all come alive before your very eyes. Then return at sundown to watch it all go to sleep and rest.. At that point you will start to think about how little we actually know as humans, and what a wonderful great opportunity we all have been given. That is the point where you get a glimpse of our Fathers depth of wisdom, and the questions he proposed to Job (Chapter 38) which Job could not answer, the identical questions, science, several millennia later, still cannot answer. Its OK, however, we don't need to know everything. Sometimes we just need to enjoy what we have been given... Like that cup of coffee, or that crispy flaky pastry, or that hamburger, or hotdog, or steamy plate of veggies, or that drama, or that symphony, or those tears of joy and laughter...
To every thing .... There is a season... Ecclesiastes 3...
Ahmad--
While Islam professes that the Quran contains specific prophecies, their proof of such prophecies are vague and lack substance. Please visit http://answering-islam.org/... for some examples and further comment.
On the other hand, the Bible contains hundreds of prophecies which have either already been perfectly fulfilled or will be fulfilled at the return of Jesus Christ and the end of times. But this is because the Bible was inspired (breathed out) by God, while the Quran was only the writings of a man.
RP
Rose Perry
7 years ago
Science hasn't been designed to prove those things. It may prove only those things which have to do with physical world, material, or with something more grounded than feeling love or being moral. It's a completely different dimension where science is quite weak. Science is not a universal tool to prove anything we want, no, it has its own limits.
As for me, it was science that actually converted me from an agnostic to a firm believer in a creator. The incredible discoveries in several fields of science, but especially in physics and quantum mechanics proved to me that there is no way this incredible and complex universe could've come about without an intelligence behind it.
Th
theMasterDebater
9 years ago
Jesus imaginary magic zombie jew-god christ...there are so many nonsensical statements in this article! Clearly, you are NOT very well educated, Darren Hewer.
1st, you keep saying "science cannot prove..." Uh, one of the first things you learn in science is that it DOES NOT even attempt to PROVE anything. The highest attainment in science is a THEORY based on sound factual evidence and repeatable experiment and observation. PROOFS only exist in mathematics & logic, NOT science!
2nd, you keep saying "...truth". Clearly, as most of our highly confused citizenry, you have a complete misunderstanding of the word. Truth is nothing more than an accurate and honest claim to fact. It is wholly dependent upon factuality. If something is not factual, then a claim made about it is not true. Truth has nothing to do with some mystical transcendent reality!
At least you are smart enough to acknowledge the benefit that science has brought to mankind. However, I strongly suggest that you go and get your facts straight before posting your very convoluted opinions.
This is why the internet may very well be more harmful than good for mankind at this point in history. Anybody can post any nonsense garbage for other naive individuals to be convinced by!
Nv
NvrTrstaHypocrite
5 years ago
Heya 'bater,
It's appears some get the point and miss it - all at the same time: That Science is a powerful tool, but it's not the only one and is limited. Science works well in some areas, poorly, or fails completely in others.
Two other tools - religion (or spiritual, of enlightenment or conscienceness) and philosophy (rationality, reason, logic) - are also powerful, also variable in utility by area of endeavour. Tools of what?
Tools of humankind to discover the correct and full nature of reality, existence.
For one to lavish in one tool and deny the need or usefulness of the others is unfortunate.
At first I thought you were attempting to have a decent debate of the questions none can answer and what has yet to be explored but then you went straight into a religious bigot who's clearly preaching science cannot disprove god to further you ethnic groups influence among the more gullible masses, the irony of this is that you cannot even accept the world for what it is people like you tend to use that belief of yours to hide your cowardliness causing more harm. Do the world a favor don't bother playing scientist CREATIONISTS ARE TO STUPID FOR THIS POSITION YOU CANNOT HAVE ANY REAL DEBATE IF IT CHALLENGES YOU BELIEF SO DO NOT! GET INVOLVED!!! YOU SAY FOR THE CHILDREN BUT REALLY ITS FOR YOU!!!
MS
morris saraie
7 years ago
very elegantly put!
funny story and rather quick as well.. my grandfather was a big Rabbi in Hungary roughly 80 years ago. on top of him passing away Mereoy years after I spoke my first words, he lived in another country, suffice to say I barely knew him. in the short time that he was able to speak to me I see now why he made it it's so important to get it across to me this one concept or idea. which is exactly if was it his aim he hit bullseye because this is literally the only thing I remember him ever telling me... he said put everything aside literally everything aside and there's two ideas..A)believe in God.
B) not believe in God.
he goes on to say if you believe in "A" then die and are wrong..however, if you believe in "B" then die and are wrong....
Then you might have a problem..
food for thought ;)
Good points and delivered gently ....NICE !
RC
Romic? Ciocan
9 years ago
May God bless and reward you for such a beautiful and insightful article. I grew up in a Christian family, but when I was teenager I started to question my belief. I was told that you can't discuss about Bible in philosophical ground. Than I studied about Islam. The Bible is most coheres the most with the reality and logic. It stands above all book.
Rene--
You're absolutely right Rene. As the Psalmist wrote, "The heavens declare the glory of God . . ." (Psalm 19:1)
Tell me Rene, have you come to know the Creator of all things in a personal way through Jesus Christ?
If I may add a question for Grow up, I'd like him/her to explain how so many men and women scientists with PhD's after their names also happen to be creationists. Does Grow up consider them to be too stupid to debate the issue?
giovanni aligaen--
Simply put, there are not going to be scientific explanations for such things as seas parting, burning bushes that aren't consumed by the fire, or people being raised from the dead. These are outside of the realm of science and therefore are considered miracles of God.
So how do we prove these things happened? We do that by finding that the Bible is an authoritative book. Archeology, history, and even science do corroborate the people, places, and events in the Bible to the extent that no biblical account has ever been DIS-proven. The hundreds of perfectly fulfilled pr0phecies in the Bible swear to its divinely inspired nature. The eye-witness accounts of Jesus--his birth, life, death, and resurrection--attest to the supernatural nature of the Bible. The step of faith to believe in the other miracles in the Bible is a simple one after that.
If you have specific questions regarding the Bible, please feel free to ask.
GA
giovanni aligaen
9 years ago
how about this god stuff which is all confusing and won't go away proof is it real or not, how about the bible, the burning bush, the red sea crossing.
Hi Thomas, I can see that you have spent a lot of time thinking through different world views. From all that you have studied about Jesus, what is your understanding of His message to us? Have you looked at the historical evidence of Jesus' life? Have you explored the evidence for the accuracy of the eyewitness accounts recorded in the Bible? Do you think that if Jesus did appear to you in physical form that you would put your trust in Him? Why do you think there were those who did see Him, saw His miracles, witnessed His death, and then discovered that He had risen, but still did not put their trust in Him? What makes you think you would be any different than they?
TJ
Thomas Jing Yang Guan
9 years ago
The problem with me is if I die more pressure would be brought to me in hell because without even believing in science one bit makes me want to go on the ceiling and yell out Jesus Christ you come down here now to show us all who you really are
TJ
Thomas Jing Yang Guan
9 years ago
I trust no one if you think there must be a beginning then scientists would say you are totally influenced with science and nuts i always know what is happening to the universe is what god knows and what Jesus Christ truly knows about himself we really do no ever own Christ or use him to use a bit of magic to change things
TJ
Thomas Jing Yang Guan
9 years ago
I do not ever have disbelieve god because if he was a mortal I would not ever listen to him just because no one is perfect and it does not mean i do not have faith in Christ and G Shock watch is popular not to mention is is really protective but Special Duties Unit is even hard to say if he he never lies or would never like just like a girl would not know plus if you think science is dam good i prefer you slam yourself into a big oven and get a Chinese chef to cook your body for anyone who would like to taste your meat, body and organs inside you
Assalamualaikum,, i know ur all are good scholars but besides this many thingx r hidden from our brain thinking also......!! I dont wanna intrupt uhh guys i jst hav a question if anyone knows the accurate answer then please do reply me.....
My question is
Quranic predictions which science couldn't prove till now!. I???
f any body know do please reply as early as uhh can.
good article and good thread too on this site
MP
Marco Pelser
10 years ago
Science can prove that you are not merely a brain in a jar being manipukated to think what is in fact is. How? Simple. The kind of jar necessary is not in fact a mere ordinary jar that you are talking about, but rather a highly complex machine. That already disproves the concept of a jar.
As for the five minutes ago, five minutes at a different energy frequency could be 5 million minutes. But in real-time, according to our solar clock, it is clearly impossible for the universal physics to ring true in only five minutes. It all depends on what you compare things to, historic truth is repeatable. If i pick up an apple and throw it at the wall I can do it again. It may be a different wall or the same one, but the truth of it is repeatable.
Logic is based on certainty, how we derive whay is certain as opposed to what is ever so uncertain and unresourceful, how we use creativity and logic to invent what people belief to be impossible because of uncertainty.
Science can prove that rape is evil. It can when you compare what is good and evil. You can argue that morals are based on what ought to be, however science says otherwise. Evil can be considered a malicious frame of mind, someone intent on harming another with no empathy or care. Its all about your metrics, and a metric is based on comparison, and oughtness is based on performatives, the goals in question. If the goal of good is to make life enjoyable for all who experience it, then it is proper to say someone ought to, and can be, considered evil for raping another.
Even if that person commiting the act is unaware of their own nature, comparitively, that person is evil to those who know good.
Science can prove that, yes. And science can prove that your wife loves you based on her own measurable conviction and belief in her love for you and the resolute definition of her understanding of love and how she believes to communicate it. You can prove she loves you by repeatability of historical truth, her sacrifices to spend time with you. In fact, with science you can also prove whether or not she will continue to love you in future.
Theres a lot more to love that you can measure, test and predict, validate and confirm, but not if you have a shallow or limited understanding when it comes to how love can be expressed, and how it is experienced and manifested.
Science can prove love and love can prove science, they are very much cooperative, otherwise the idea of love wouldnt even exist in anyones mind. The fact that you conceive the concept means that it is provable.
Science is not intended to prove that an uncertainty is a certainty. That is why most chirstians have a problem with science, they believe we dont believe in God because we cannot prove God exists, which is not the case, the majority of scientists do believe in God, they just know the face of "God" through a different light and scope. We all believe in God whether God is genderless, It, the universe, ENERGY, but we dont believe in anyone elses version of god other than our own version, our account.
If values are more important than the stories they come from, why is the world wasting time fighting over stories, and not living up to those values, values that may change the entire course of human life, forever.
We are bickering over stories, [expletive removed] the story, if we said [expletive removed] all the stories, i believe we would all realize very quickly how many values we have that are exactly the same.
We have separated our collective understanding of LIFE or ENERGY or GOD into these redundant stories, and we would all be better off if we focussed on living up to our values and learning eachothers values, abd using science to optimize how we express and deliver on those values, how we [expletive removed] contribute.
Remarkably writing a brand new future.
After all... if Jesus knew that the world was so important that he needed to sacrifice himself, his legacy, to save it... shouldnt that be the greatest lesson of all?
That if the story gets in the way of the future we need to let it go...
That it doesnt matter what the story is as long as we are willing to sacrifice the greatest truth we may all differently believe in to live up to its values...
To sacrifice being right for being good... instead of forfeiting both...
One of the hardest challenges for a christian is letting go of the story and living up to the values...
But isnt that the same for the scientist, muslim, pagan, etc?
If the values are so important why are we arguing over the story they came from...
We all know truth...
But who can face it???
If you are not proactive, physically contributing anything, willing to be a servant of the people for the sake of your own sovereignty, then it doesnt matter how pure your intentions or how honest your story is...
The story of your action counts most.
Richard T--
Fair enough Richard. It seems you have thought much on these things and have come to some reconciliation in your mind that the path you're on will be "acceptable." I'm sure you'd agree though, that we can believe many things that turn out to be wrong.
My journey led me to trust that the God of the Bible is the only God, and that the Bible is his revealed word to mankind. My responsibility as a Christian is to witness of that truth to those who are still outside of the will of God and will therefore be judged by him when they die. As Jesus said, ""If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Even if you have done some reading of the Bible and/or the specific claims and teachings of Jesus, I hope you will revisit those things. If you hold Jesus with any esteem whatsoever, consider that he stated flatly that the only way you can have a relationship with God is through him; and that relationship is a make-or-break relationship for all eternity. No religion will provide that. None of man's teachings will equal that.
If you ever have any questions, I or someone else on this blog would be most happy to answer those questions. I know that the Christians on this site are praying that you will come to know Jesus personally. Since I did so, I've had the "ride of my life."
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Sorry Tom. In my first sentence of my latest reply " joy " should be " you". There is also a subject- verb agreement problem I missed. Typing on this phone is difficult because it's hard to scroll back to proofread. Otherwise the thoughts expressed are indeed what I think about speculating about death. Thanks for your patience, Tom.
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Tom
Perhaps joy also have experienced people who feel that if they don't think or believe a certain way, then their worst fears will be realized. Imagining that the questions I may ask about what may happen to me after death seem to be in that same ballpark - that is, there already is an a priori belief that ones earthly behavior may influence what may happen to one after death. What is " right" and " wrong" behavior can never be immediately determined , much as the cliche that says although we feel it is wrong to kill, what about if one had the chance to kill the infant Hitler and thereby prevent the future results of his then nascent self? To think one can influence what will happen after death reminds me of the Middle Ages story of "Everyman" who is told to bring his book of count - his good deeds as white balls and bad deeds as black balls - to be weighed by Death to determine whether or not he will go to heaven or hell. I don't subscribe to that type of thinking. Nor am I a Calvinist or Viking who believes my fate has already been decided and it is not by deeds but by " Gods Grace" that one is saved. Perhaps you hadn't noticed earlier that I favor a Buddhist approach to such matters - that only through realizing the truth of the causes of suffering and understanding the incorrect view of dualistic ( right/ wrong etc) thinking can one live this life in an authentic way as is possible. I had mentioned before more than once that the view expressed in The Heart Sutra represent for me the highest knowledge one can reach , and while I believe its words totally, I don't pretend that I have any more than a modicum of understanding about it. This life is where I believe ones focus should be, and speculating about an afterlife can only remain just that - speculation.
Richard T--
If you had a growth on your side and it was getting bigger, I'm wondering if your response would be, "it doesn't matter what I think or believe about such matters since what is, IS"? I suspect you would want to learn the truth of what it is because of the possible consequences of not knowing and ignoring it.
When I was 46, my aunt died from a tumor on her neck. As I sat in the hospital room watching her die, it dawned on me that I'd probably lived more than half of my life and one day, like it or not, I too would die. I had enough concern about myself that I asked the question, what will happen to me when I die? If some of what I'd had explained to be as a child was actually true, I could be in big trouble when I died. So I began to investigate and seek for some answers. I had a lot of preconceived notions and half-beliefs in a bunch of things. It took six months, but I came to the conclusion of what I now know to be the real truth.
How about you Richard? You're not immortal; the looming day of your death is getting bigger. Doesn't it make sense to seek the truth of what will happen on that day rather than saying, "What is, is"?
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Whatever my speculation about your questions, Tom, it doesn' matter what I think or believe about such matters since what is, IS; my answer is : I don't know.
Richard T--
Thank you once again for your comments and observations. It's refreshing and valuable to share others beliefs and ideas.
Now don't think you are the only one who can get "aggressive" about your beliefs at times. (Maybe a more appropriate term would be "passionate")? Although I would love to admit that I always follow the golden rule (you probably know that Jesus first coined the phrase), as a Christian there are still plenty of times when my sinful nature pops up to override my Christian faith and relationship with the Lord. Being a Christian doesn't make one better than anyone else; it just makes one better off--from an eternal standpoint.
So if you don't mind me asking: just where DO you stand regarding spiritual things? Why do you think we're here, and where do you think you'd go if you died right now?
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Thank you for your sincere answer and explanation, Tom. No one , I believe, can take issue with since belief, especially since yours offers such comfort and finality for you. I dislike when I tend to get aggressive when presenting my arguments, especially since as a Christian you must most certainly believe in and practice the Golden Rule - something no one in my opinion can take issue with. I think personally think the ethics of a religion like Christianity offer much latitude for positive, sincere discussion. The more " cosmic" aspects of religion seem to be not so fertile ground for agreement as much as can discussions which deal with ethics. Ethics matter. Speculating about the beginnings of the universe doesn't really seem to matter as much as developing understanding between " believers" and those who argue so much for rationality that they forget that kindness and understanding trump abstract knowledge any day of the week! Thank you for your sincerity, Tom.
Richard T--
Actually, I'm always anxious to answer any questions. But sometimes I don't understand the question. Sorry.
As for a "self/soul," I firmly believe that the one who created all things has not only given us a soul/spirit, but that our spirit is made in the image of the one who gave us such. That's in order that we can have a connection to the creator. I also believe that the creator desired for us to know him and has therefore revealed himself to us so that we can know he exists and that we can have that relationship with him. We don't have to wander around aimlessly trying to figure out where we came from, why we're here, and what the meaning of our existence is. We don't have to invent all sorts of religions or seek some inner peace/nirvana; we can know the truth of our existence and spending our lives in order to please the one who gave us life.
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Anyone telling someone something is simply that. There is no reason - except belief- to think someone other than another human being can do that. Knowledge not gained by individual effort is not knowledge - someone has told someone something which may or may not be true. You did say you don't think anything but a human can have an essence but you didn't answer my question as to where such essence is in a human being. Belief without proof remains belief andpeoplebelieve a whole lot of ideas which of course is what most people do. There have been many many religions purporting to know " the meaning of life". Take your pick - if they are based on belief they are all essentially equal. You are right though - you don't seem to understand or want to answer my question re is there a self/ soul or not.
Richard T--
If knowledge is "put into" someone, there must have been a "someone" or "something" of higher knowledge and understanding that placed it there, right?
Richard T--
I guess I'm not understanding the question. However, if you're referring to something having a sense of being or of self, there is no reason to believe that anything less than a human being would have any sense of essence or self; and I would suggest that these senses were created, not coming from chance or happenstance.
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Concerning meaning to life, it is up to each individual to determine that, isn't it? Otherwise one would be told the meaning of life and that is not satisfying to me- knowledge does not come From books etc- it is put Into them. And relying on someone else to tell you the meaning of life places one in a subservient position ie who told the person who tells you the " meaning of life?" If one believes all humans are born equal in value, then one would appreciate someone who might help someone to discover meaning, but it could never be effectively told to someone because in this universe there is no human better by nature than another - unless you " believe" that is so. I don't. When the truth of nothingness is known, there CanBe no " better" or " lesser" Nothingness shows everything Whole and Equal in value. If this is not so , answer the question which asks you to show where the " essence" or " soul" is.
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Tom
I appreciate you responding to my question, but if there is to be further discussion I would like you to answer the questions I posed, mainly - does any matter , from supposedly the smallest to a human being, have any " essence" or " self" ? I propose that my statement about Nothingness is hard to understand If you do understand the question, then where is the essence of " self, " soul" or , in my example of a chair, " chair ness" to be found? I propose it can't be found because such an idea is an imaginary construct- all is paradoxically composed of Nothingness. How can it be otherwise?
Richard T--
The laws of thermodynamics specify that things cannot have always existed; they are not self-sustaining. So something had to have started everything at a point.
I would suggest that "the essence of everything is nothingness" is contradictory on the surface and therefore cannot be true. Something can't be "nothing" and "something" at the same time (unless the something IS nothing, which is obviously not the case.)
Do you think there is any meaning or reason to life?
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
Nothing is ever " created". It has always been I think. Take any object- a chair. Where is the " chair ness" of it? Take a leg away. Is it still a chair? Take all legs away. Where is the essence of " chair"? Same with an individual. Where is the so- called "essence" or self or soul? Take away certain parts. When are you no longer you? Where is the essence of you? Nowhere , because like all matter in the universe, we and every micro particle has " nothing" as its essence. People give up and say there is an essence - a soul etc. but where is it? Where is the essence of any individual thing? The essence of everything is Nothingness. If not, show me otherwise. I can get more detailed" deeper" so to speak about this topic. But there is no need to. People give up and imagine all sorts of things to compensate for their ( our) lack of understanding.
Richard T--
Yet if everything does exist, it had to come from someone or some thing. Since everything in the physical universe consists of space, time, and matter, and since these things couldn't have created themselves, doesn't it make sense that something greater than--outside of--those things must have created them? Something outside the ability of physical science to explain their beginning?
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
I typed an answer but when I submitted it I got a reply something like " you have previously posted same thing" or something to that extent. What I said was that I have no original ideas or theories as to how life began but when being asked where did everything " come from" I explained that such a question has no validity to me because it's assuming there was already " something" " someplace" and that of course doesn't answer the question at all ie it's a " first cause" type of question that of course just leads to " well where did That come from" etc. at one time it was thought a vacuum fluctuation caused matter to form out of nothingness but that is now challenged by the " multiverse" theory. The math used is certainly elegant and I can't do it but I appreciate the particle physicist's desire to " know" rather than " believe". I think the Heart Sutra best sums up what I wish I knew.
Richard T--
So how would you begin to explain the finite perfection and intricacy of the universe, irreducible complexity of things, or that the study of bio-genesis negates the possibility of life coming from anything other than life?
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
I have no theory about where everything " came from". Those words though, if taken literally, imply that there was Someting Someplace Else from which matter here appeared. So, I don't think matter " came from" someplace else. Particle physicists used to thing matter was the result of " vacuum fluctuation", that is , that matter came from Nothing. Theories about this are mathematically " elegant" - ie they " work". The multiverse ( many universes) theory seems to being giving that school of thought a run for its money. I couldn't have ever done the math not imagined the theoretical thought involved in such thinking, but I do pay attention to how much particles physics seems to mesh well with Buddhist thought. I would say "The Heart Sutra" comes as close to what I think is so that has been put into words.
Richard T--
So do you have any theories as to where everything came from?
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
I do wish to add that the person ( is it Jamie?) who runs ( I guess) this site is a polite, unthreatening person who tries to respond kindly to people who express disagreement s about belief in God. It's certainly an improvement over " bible thumper" types who immediately condemn disbelievers to " hell" or some such place.
RT
Richard Terrill
10 years ago
James
I am not the Richard whose comment is right before yours. I wrote explaining an experience one would probably deem " spiritual" and noted that nowhere was there any God or higher power in the entire experience. I agree with what you stated, always remembering that it is not necessary to prove " God" doesn't exist. Rather , it is encumbant upon theists to prove God does exist. There is nothing to disprove. It's like disproving or proving the world was created by frogs dropping ping pong balls upon the void. ie there is no reason to prove a " first cause" etc ,as most people are familiar with the fallacies which arise using that argument. I respect most one who tries to make sense out of all this but has a bottom line of " I don't know", after all irrational suppositions have been put forth.
JS
James Smith
10 years ago
This whole page was one big Argument from Ignorance just because we don't know the answer to something does not mean a god did it.
Thanks for the article, really makes you think that you there is so much more of what we can explain.
TR
Terrill, Richard " Terry"
10 years ago
Dear Jamie.
I wrote a rather detailed reply to your latest comment that I received in an email. When I tried to send it back to you it was returned as undeliverable. Does that mean all replies must be written here only? If so, I will have to write again. Suffice to say I think your reply was considerate and, again, sent in a spirit of kindness. RTTerrill
TR
Terrill, Richard " Terry"
10 years ago
Dear Jamie,
Thank you for requesting more information about " spiritual experiences" I have had and how they have affected my life. When he was 33 years old my dear friend died from cancer. I was present at his bedside and at his death, which he faced with courage, and with not even a word passed between us regarding God or an afterlife , etc. ; we had, however, years earlier with youthful bravado imagined how we might " confirm" an afterlife or possibly communicate from " beyond the grave" ;we thought that the kitsch Hollywood movie " Houdini" would be a good way ie do it on Halloween. Well, I awoke on November 1 - All Souls Day - with a dream fragment fresh in my mind - my friend faced me wearing a mask which was essentially a big nose like Alec Guiness wore as "Fagin" in " Oliver Twist". A bit later I thought of the " language of dreams" and thought it indeed may have been a communication dream, because it was something the audience(me) surely " knows"(nose). There was no such intellectualization the next time. About six months later without preamble I found myself facing a huge, blockbuster-built futuristicaly armed samurai at the bottom of ancient stone steps which I could see offered a circuitous path upward to a place to which I believed I should go. But how to get by the samurai? Looking more closely at the warrior, close enough to see determined, honor-bound dark eyes gleaming from within the strange ebony mask-like helmet, I suddenly realized the warrior was my friend's mother. She looked straight down at me , nodded slightly, and stepped aside to allow me passage up the stone stairway. Perhaps during the vision's time I saw and felt my way upward, but I have no recollection of that happening. When I reached the top there was a room where my friend sat on the edge of a large, recently made bed. He was smiling, and I knew why: he was smiling to let me know that, yes, this is remarkable, isn't it? He was letting me know the experience was not " just a dream," and he knew I knew it too. He asked me to tell his wife he was ok. He didn't go into details but I intuited that he was healing in preparation for something which was to happen later, but I didn't know what that was or when it was to occur. I looked around the room and saw beautiful paintings on the walls and wondered who had made them. While I stood in a kind of continuing, welcoming , thrilling amazement, my friend suddenly thrust a hand mirror in front of my face. As I stared at it and saw no reflection, it seemed he was kindly telling me ," Quit thinking about yourself so much". But as I faded from the wondrous room, I felt more and more that I was the one saying those words to myself. When I awoke it was Easter morning.
You also kindly asked me, Jamie, what effect this had upon me. ( I also years later had another communication like that with a friend who had also recently died. ). Well, I think about my first friend every day since he died. At the time of the experience I totally believed it confirmed that there is a continuation of our " Self" after death. I also thought the similar experience I had a number of years later was " real". But I won't know " for certain" until I also die. I feel humbled and thankful to have experienced what I did, and I mainly think the experiences confirm how much I really miss my friends. Thank you again Jamie for the non- judgmental way you asked me to comment on my experience. Yours truly Richard Terry Terrill.
