Dan Brown claims to be Christian. This should mean that he tries to follow Jesus. But Dan Brown believes a lot of what The Da Vinci Code discusses. He stated in a TV interview (pick the first Good Morning America interview here to see it) that he would not change a thing if he were to write a non-fiction book on the same topics The Da Vinci Code discusses. He clearly believes in a very different Jesus than most Christians. So, the question is: Who is Jesus really? Is he “merely a man” as Brown suggests, or something much, much more?
The best sources we have are found in the Bible itself. The biblical texts are the earliest texts we have, written in the first century and recorded by eyewitnesses or those who directly consulted eyewitnesses. There is no evidence that the Bible “evolved through countless translations, additions, and revisions” as Brown, through Teabing, suggests. The Bible is in fact the most reliable ancient document we possess, and exists in thousands of ancient copies with no major discrepancies. Here’s what these earliest sources have to say regarding Jesus, who is called “Immanuel,” meaning “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).
I want to be Content: Can you be truly content with your life?
Feeling alone? Talking with a patient listener is just a click away
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God … The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:1,14).
“Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness” (Phil 2:5-7).
“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Col 2:9).
“Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”" (John 20:28)
Jesus also accepted worship, and for Jews this was seen as blasphemy because only God could be worshiped. The early church leaders agreed that Jesus was not merely a man: “God Himself being manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life” - Ignatius (105AD)
It seems that since Dan Brown is contradicting the oldest and most reliable sources on who Jesus is, he is inventing his own Jesus to suit himself. That will never do for someone who “seeks the truth.” Jesus was clear regarding his claims about Himself and his work on earth. Many religious leaders have taught that we should love one another. But what made Jesus unique? Here’s what Billy Graham had to say:
Only Jesus died and then came back to life by the power of God, never to die again. … You can visit the tombs of philosophers and religious teachers of every kind across the world but you can’t visit Jesus’ tomb, because He rose from the dead and is now in heaven. Someday, He will return in glory to destroy all evil and rule in perfect justice. … Do you want to know God? Look at Jesus, for He was God in human flesh. And when you do, you also will discover that God loves you. He loves you so much that Christ was willing to die for you so you could be reconciled to God.
It’s time to answer Jesus’ question for yourself. It was first addressed to His twelve disciples but applicable to you and me today. Don’t jump to answer based on your preconceived notions or Dan Brown’s flawed history, but instead answer by examining the information available and asking God to help you answer Jesus’ question: “Who do you say I am?“
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June 22nd, 2006 at 9:55 pm
I think this question gets to the heart of the matter. Even Jesus asked his disciples “Who do you say that I am”. Many use his name and talk about Christ and spirituality but I do not get the sense that we are on the same page at all with our various understandings of Him and his mission. An interesting comment came up in another blog about whether God speaks to people in their own language and cultures. I would like to hear from some Christians who have come out of other cultures about that. My claim is that just as there are ‘types” and forshadows of Christ in the Jewish traditions there are in other cultures as well. Isn’t that kind of why John went with the “Logos” concept in his gospel?
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:09 pm
I had a vivid dream about Jesus back in ‘98 when I was a “christian”. It has been branded into my consciousness.
I am in the basement, sitting on a chair, with my hands folded together on the table in front of me. There is a complete and utter dark figure standing behind me with his hand left hand on my right shoulder. The energy that vibrates out of this man is, what I considered at the time, evil. I try to scream out “Jesus Christ”… but the only sounds coming out of my mouth is complete jibberish. I couldn’t, for the life of me, scream out his name. I remember trying to envision Jesus coming down the stairs on a white horse with a sword and using it to kill the dark outlined man. But he didn’t. From subconsciousness to consciousness, I could only scream out something like, Jalusy Crydst… until my older sister (in conscious state) told me to shut up.
I have shared this dream just the other week with a group of girls… 3 out of 4 of them admitted having a similiar experience… they couldn’t say Jesus Christ.
I know now what that dream means.
Do you pay close attention to what your subconscious mind is trying to tell you in the form of dreams?
June 23rd, 2006 at 9:32 am
Why do you use a small c for Christian? I find that significant. The other is a nightmare and nothing else unless you think it is. If you knew about God but had not really received His Life then I understand the inablility to speak Jesus Name. Because it is only by his Spirit that we can use the name of Jesus with true Spiritual authority. You obviously did not have faith to believe you could be “saved” from the dark man through Jesus.
I have had at least one nightmare that was most definitely significant for moving me forward in my spiritual journey. At first I tried to brush it off and just felt creepy as it was pretty horrible. But then the reason it happened was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit and was a huge step toward healing from abuse. It revealed the hatred in my heart as a result of the abuse that needed cleansing and healing if I was to grow in the ways of God. When I dealt with the sludge that had come to the surface of my consciousness there was a huge emotional and spiritual release. (release from oppression depression etc.)
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:57 am
I use a small “c” for christian because it holds no power. Believe me Jan, I was baptized in the Spirit before this dream even came to me. I was on FIRE for Jesus Christ and reading the Bible 24-7. It surprises me that you use the ol’ “didn’t have enough faith in Jesus” campaign. I thought that way of thinking died out years ago. Sure doesn’t work on me.
How prideful of you to classify my dream as nothing more than a nightmare, then go on to say that YOUR nightmare “was most definately significant in for moving you forward in your spiritual journey.” Wake up Jan.
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:08 am
MJ … err, sorry, Spiderwoman … you said you know what that dream means. How do you interpret it? Its meaning is not obvious to me, at least.
Personally, I still find it difficult to say Jesus’ name. Not sure why, for me at least. Maybe His really is the “name above all names”? :)
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Question… if my subconscious doesn’t believe in the power of Jesus Christ, why would I force my conscious to believe?
The dark figure is the man of my dreams,
and I am falling in love with him as we speak.
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Hi MJ, so did you realize after that you only thought you believed consciously but your subconscious didn’t believe so it showed you didn’t actually believe? Can you explain more?
And tell me a bit about the dark figure…
emzee, I find I say Jesus’ name whenever I am afraid, and I use it to pray for people too, knowing we have authority given to us over all things on Earth. Still learning about that though. Sometimes it’s still easy to forget God’s authority.. his true great authority. And the power in Jesus’ name.
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Hey Spiderwomen AkA MJ
Did you ever think that the dream that you told us about could’ve been implanted from the evil one. Just as God gives us dreams the devil has that same power too. When I was a teenager I had a huge fear that I wouldn’t live till I was 20 and it had a very significant hold on my life, till I told someone and the person asked me how did I know that feeling was from God, it could have easily been something that the devil put in my head to separate me from Jesus. I prayed that God would protect and take this fear away and it did almost immediately and I much older than 20 now :-)
If we believe that Jesus has power in our lives we have to believe that the devil can have that same power. It’s all about who we choose to lean. MJ, I really encourage you to ask God to reveal what that dream was about and who gave it to you. One of my favorite verses is from Romans 8:39 “neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
God loves you MJ and his heart for you is aching over that dream you had and wants you back in a relationship with him.
June 23rd, 2006 at 4:49 pm
You misunderstood my meaning Spidewoman. I didn’t say your dream had no meaning just that it only has meaning if you think it has. I do not think other people generally have insight into anothers dreams. You seemed to want anothers opinion of what it meant. I am sorry if my comment offended you. I was just supposing and not at all judging you. How could I know you were “on fire for Jesus”. See I just proved my point, another cannot have true insight into anothers dreams. The Holy Spirit though can reveal this to us. The spirit did for me hence my personal illustration. I was not in any way trying to be in competition to you, and it was not a prideful comment. I am surprised you would take it that way.
June 26th, 2006 at 9:50 am
Would it matter if Jesus had taken Mary as His wife and fathered children as Brown’s book suggests? He would still be the Son of God. I know the Bible doesn’t mention anything close to this. But when it’s all said and done, would it really matter?
June 26th, 2006 at 10:27 am
Hey Mary-Jane,
I have a good friend who I normally tell my dreams to if I feel they are noteworthy. I asked her what she thought of your dream and she told me. I don’t know if you’re interested in knowing, but can I e-mail it to you? (you don’t have to post your email on this blog) Maybe you have the dream figured out, but I thought you might be interested in knowing what my friend said. (Of course, it should always be tested with the Bible and prayer). And dont’ worry, it’s nothing bad! It’s interesting though… :)
Hope to hear from ya!
June 26th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Nick I actually think your premise has been discussed quite a lot on other blogs on this site. However, I do think for me it would make a difference how i feel about Jesus. As I mentioned on another blog, he seemed to have thot to care for his mother at the end, entrusting her to the apostle John’s care. As womens’ status was much different than it is today I would think as a loving husband he would do no less for a beloved spouse.
Our gospel records and indeed none of the gnostic texts to my knowledge mentions anything about this.
The other thing is that he refers to himself as the bridegroom but only in context of his ministry not in the literal sense.
June 26th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Jesus Christ is by far, thee single most misunderstood person on the face of the planet. Can the real JC please stand up, please stand up? lol.
June 27th, 2006 at 5:34 am
Jan…You make a good point about Jesus not providing for Mary. Perhaps Jesus intended to provide for her as a man. And just as a womans status has changed over the last two thousand years, so has the world around us. In another thousand years, we will be able to accomplish all of Jesus’ miracles through technology. Who will Jesus be then? Will He still be the Son of God? Will anybody even care, when we as a race are able to live for hundreds of years and cure every disease?
And Spiderwoman. I agree. Will the real Jesus please stand up. Everybody tells me who Jesus is but Jesus. The Bible tells me who He is. Preachers tell me who He is, Dan Brown tells me who He is. Why won’t Jesus tell me who He is? Maybe I’m just not listening correctly.
June 27th, 2006 at 8:33 am
I know this sounds trite, but for me Jesus is love and unconditional acceptance from the creator of the universe. I have to scoot to work I will try to explain what I mean later. Have a great day all.
June 27th, 2006 at 8:50 am
Nick I am not sure what kind of answer you are looking for? Most of us have honestly answered your question with what we know. How is Jesus suppose to tell you who he is. What would it take for you to believe.
June 27th, 2006 at 9:33 am
Why can’t Jesus tell me who He is? He rose from the dead, ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. At least that’s the way the story goes. But I worship a living God, I want more than stories from 2000 years ago. Worshipping a living God should imply a living relationship, not just old worn out stories. Sometimes we are too busy being Christians to know why we are Christians. My guess is that most are Christians because of geographic location. If I had been born in Iraq, I’d probably be Muslim. Would Jesus love me any less? Would I still go to heaven when I die?
Jan, why do you believe the universe has a creator? Did somebody tell you that, or did you read it somewhere? I get a kick out of scientist that tell us how old the earth is and how many stars are in the sky.
Leah, your comment about ‘What would it take for me to believe?’ implies that you think I’m not a Christian. I may just be a Christian that’s tired of hearing other peoples ‘facts’ about God and Jesus. Honestly, does anybody know for sure. I know, that’s why it’s called faith. Been there - done that.
My lunch half-hour is up and I don’t want to be a blip on my bosses radar, so I best go for now.
June 27th, 2006 at 10:02 am
Nick, a couple of comments/questions … not to attack anyone of course, but rather to try to build eachother up in faith by helping us discuss how we can come to a better understanding of our faith.
“My guess is that most are Christians because of geographic location.” The reasons a person believes doesn’t prove anything about whether a particular belief is true. Many Christians believe because they were brought up in Christian homes; many others (like myself) were not brought up in Christian homes, but came to faith (by the grace of God) through careful investigation. A person may be a Christian for a wrong reason, but that doesn’t mean the belief itself is any less true.
“why do you believe the universe has a creator? Did somebody tell you that, or did you read it somewhere?” I don’t believe the universe had a creator for either of those reasons. I believe for (a) Philosophical / logical reasons (ex. the universe could not be infinitely old) (b) Scientific reasons (yes, there are good scientfic arguments) and of course (c) Being a Christian necessitates it :)
“Honestly, does anybody know for sure. I know, that?s why it?s called faith.” We can’t know everything for sure, but as Christians, we at least know what the Bible (the most historically accurate record) tells us about Jesus; the gospel. There’s a good reason why God gave us the Bible as our reference point, to prevent people from inventing a Jesus of their own liking (like Dan Brown and others choose to do). I’m of course not suggesting that you are! I’m suggesting that “to know why we are Christians” we have to go back to that 2000 year old story, since it is the foundation for our faith. Where else could we go? I don’t doubt that Jesus can still speak to us today, but God has given us the Bible as the standard to “test the spirits” (1 John 4:1).
June 27th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
Welcome emmzee. I think that the Bible was written by MAN and hopefully inspired by God. And I agree that the Bible is the most historically accurate account of the life of Jesus. But I do not believe that God gave us the Bible. The church gave us the Bible. We could argue forever about the motives that drove the church to create one Bible from the many existing documents. But such an argument would be for the sake of an argument, so let’s side step that discussion.
And unfortunately, I’m closer to Dan Brown than you think. I have a book on the market called THE ULTIMATE APOSTLE. The premise of the book is that God wants John Bourdeau to travel from world to world as the messiah for that world. And because he is not the true Messiah, he must use technology to perform miracles. My book is science fiction, pure and simple. It’s not as well researched as THE DA VINCI CODE and I never present anything as factual. There are references in the book to the Bible, but the book is a work of fiction.
The reason I’m on this blog is because of the reaction of some of my friends to my book. I know Dan Brown is taking a lot of heat about his book. This blog seemed like a good place to find out what Christians are saying about Jesus and THE DA VINCI CODE. I read the book. I enjoyed it. And I admit that Brown makes a lot of interesting observations. My only objection to the book is the factual nature in which the book is written. But I cannot understand why so many Christians are so absolutely outraged by the book. At one point, ‘He’s Alive’ radio was almost ready to crucify Brown. I’m wondering if I should find a hole to craw into and hide.
The Christian reaction to THE DA VINCI CODE is part of the reason I made the statement about geographic Christians. It’s like Brown suggests that Jesus was just a man, let’s bash him on the head. I cannot speak for Jesus, but everything that I’ve read suggests that the ‘bashing’ idea is an incorrect response.
Finally, I do not want an ‘invented’ Jesus. That’s why I wish I could hear His voice more clearly. I want to know Jesus as Jesus, not as the person molded by the church over the last 2000 years.
Sorry. I got carried away….again.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Not to sidestep your entry Nick you made a lot of interesting points. (your book sounds interesting but rather than a messiah he sounds like superman which is coming out in theatres tomorrow) However I would like to get back to how we “know” Jesus not just rehash all the stuff about “is the bible truely God’s word etc.” as we have gone over that quite a bit on these blogs.
I was raised in Canada and I guess became a Christian somewhat due to circumstances and geographic location. However, I want to make a distinction between knowing about faith and Christian belief and the historical Jesus and truly “knowing” Him. I do not think we cannot totally get it with our intellect.
It can lead us in the direction of faith but true faith is a gift from God as I see it. I cannot even muster up my own faith.
When I was 13 I accepted salvation as I understood it and was baptized and joined the church. I believed in Christ but did not know him. ISt was a step but not the whole deal, therefore I do believe I was part of God’s family. However, it wasn’t until much later at age 23 that I can honestly say I truly met the Lord Jesus. It was a totally spiritual encounter and for the first time I “got it”. it wasn’t about me and what I knew or didn’t know intellectually or even what I did. (ie go to church reading my bible be good etc.) In fact I was back to doing all those things to heal my pain and was just getting worse. He met me no kidding it was so awesome, just me and him and for the first time I really knew who He was. I know this is probably not a very satisfying answer for many of you reading this but it is what happened to me. I was forever changed, I no longer had any trouble following God, I had been a super fence sitter before that. The missing ingredient in true knowledge of God is the ministry of the Holy Spirit which for a long time was not really taught or explained or expected in my Christian experience. If anyone gets what I am saying please let me know cause I don’t think I am alone in this.
June 27th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
Jan, I totally get what you are saying. My story is a little different. I was saved at a tent revival when I was in my early teens. That was many, many years ago. I felt the Holy Spirit that day. But I strayed and drifted from God. (And I mean really, really strayed) Now, as an “adult” I am finding God and Jesus all over again. But I’ve never felt the Holy Spirit like I did that first time. Maybe that’s why I’m still searching. I’m not where I want to be as a Christian yet because I haven’t “gotten it”. But I have a feeling that God isn’t finished with me yet.
I have a website, http://www.nickleigh.com. It’s for my book, but just ignore the promo stuff. One of the links, The Story, talks about why I wrote the book. But it also gives a glimpse of my beliefs as a Christian. I not as unbelieving as I let on. I’m just not satisfied with the ‘go to church, sing some songs, listen to a sermon and go home’ routine. I want to ‘know’ Jesus and God.
June 27th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
I am sorry you drifted from God but as you know it only takes a moment to reconnect. As far as the emotional part of it goes I don’t know. I have had other pretty intense moments with God since then but nothing quite like it. Sometimes there is no emotional feeling just a trust thing happening. Remember Peter and how passionate and vocal he was about following Jesus to the death even bragging that others would fall away but he NEVER would. Then he fell so far denying Christ three times in a very short space of time. When the resurrected Jesus met with him on the shores of Galilee he spoke to him three times asking him if Peter loved him. I don’t read Greek but I have been taught that the first two times Jesus used the word agape for love. That is the selfless sacrificial love word. Peter kept responding with yes Lord I love you (using the word phileo meaning friendship love). So then the last time Jesus asked he too used the word phileo for friendship love. I think personally he was trying to let Peter know that he understood his difficulties and his feelings of regret and that it didn’t matter if he wasn’t at that point willing to speak the word agape to Him. As it turns out Peter did go on to die as a martyr for his Lord so in the end he really did have the agape love. I hope that you come into that close encounter with Jesus again but I believe He will reveal himself to you in a way that is the most meaningful to you cuz he deals with us all as special friends. I love the Bob Dylan song Saved and the lyric I am saved by the blood of the lamb and I won’t let go and I can’t let go. And I’m hanging on to the Solid rock” It is a mutual hanging to the solid rock we trust and He holds onto us.
June 27th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
PS Nick you link didn’t work for me.
June 27th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Its ok I just typed it in and magic there it was. A very intriguing story. I too have suffered from depression and but I want to write a book. I think you were given a mission.
June 28th, 2006 at 5:29 am
I have reconnected with God. And I try to connect every day, even if it’s only for a moment. For example, after mowing the lawn, I always take off my hat and thank God for three things: a lawn to mow, a mower to mow it with, and the strength to push the mower.
Thank you for sharing the story about Peter and Jesus. Sometimes the English translation of the Bible loses meaning. That’s one reason I distrust what I read. But, until God speaks louder or I learn to listen better, the Bible is the best source of God’s word. Peace be with you, Jan. :)
June 28th, 2006 at 11:57 am
Hey Nick,
I just wanted you to know that you’re an inspiration. Believe me, an honest heart will always find the truth. I can identify with your experience too in regards to feeling connected with God. I had an interesting experience with the Spirit back in 97-ish. (I explained it on another blog.) I felt the Spirit everywhere I went. But somewhere down the road I got “lost”. I couldn’t hear the Spirit. I went through a VERY lonely time where I had to get to know myself. Looking back, it seemed it was needed to mature. For years I jumped from man to man, job to job, friend to friend… nothing could satisfy my heart. I thought God had abandoned me. I looked to the church for guidance, but I didn’t find it there. I needed a mentor, but none was provided. It seemed no one cared enough to notice how much pain I was in. But I refuse to blame anyone, it’s just what happened.
In 2005, I bacame alive. I noticed Creation for the first time. The trees, the flowers, the animals… everything was beeming with Light. I realized that Love was the reason for my existence. And I began to feel again.
I believe God has made each one of us different for a reason. We all have different spiritual journeys… and no one is to say that one is superior to another. It seems rather presumptious to think there is only one way. It would imply that we should all think and believe the same way. Which is not the defination of being unique or “fearfully and wonderfully made”. The word “comformity” actually comes to mind.
Have a wonderful day people!
July 1st, 2006 at 8:27 am
HAPPY CANADA DAY ALL!
July 9th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
The recounting of the dream by Spiderwoman reminds me of how 2 alien researchers (initially not Christian) started investigating “contacts/abductions/abuse” by aliens, and uncovered that in each instance that the person called out the name of Jesus Christ the “alien” would immediately leave, even from people who weren’t Christ-followers. They then started going to a Bible study to further investigate and found out about the spiritual battle that is going on. More detail where I read about this can be found by reading “Alien Intrusion: UFOs and the Evolution Connection” by Gary Bates–strongly recommended.
July 10th, 2006 at 7:18 am
I haven’t read ?Alien Intrusion: UFOs and the Evolution Connection?, so maybe the book answers my question. But if God created everything, including the universe, then God must have created the aliens. Wouldn’t that make the aliens our brothers and sisters in Christ? Assuming, of course, that Jesus has visited the alien’s home planet.
July 16th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
It has been awhile since the last entry, maybe no one reads this anymore. Anyway though, Spiderwomen I have always thot of the “One Way” to mean Jesus Christ and his sacrifice alone and not the expression of our relationship with Him as we live here on earth. We are all unique and that is why judging is so damaging. We get like spoiled siblings and think “Mom must love me best”. How we come to find the connection with Jesus is varied, I guess for good or bad that is why there are so many different denominations. However, I hope you didn’t think from my comments to you before that I imagined there was only one expression of true faith in Christ Jesus.
July 17th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Lighten up, it’s just a stupid (fictional!) book. Faith is a personal thing. If your faith is strong, it shouldn’t be threatened by some hack’s novel.
There is a great deal of schalorly researh out there as to the true identities of the early apostles that is far more thought provoking reading then this trashy, poorly written book. Try Elaine Pagels’ works to start with. You may find them interesting.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:08 am
What does “faith is a personal thing” mean? Does it mean we shouldn’t be concerned with the truth? If so, why would we care about what Elaine Pagels thinks are the “true identities” of the disciples?
I agree that The Da Vinci Code is a “stupid (fictional!) book”. Unfortunately Dan Brown doesn’t think so; as per the interview he gave (linked by this article), he believes in the theories in the book. The problem is that even what is declared “FACT” at the beginning of the book is quite wrong, for example:
Brown misquotes Leonardo to make it seem like he hated the Bible
The Priory of Sion is not a real organization
Jesus was not considered “merely a man” before the Council of Nicaea … etc etc
See “What’s the Big Deal About the Da Vinci Code? It’s Just Fiction” for more on the topic of the DVC being just fiction.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:02 am
Jesse I read a bit online about Elaine Pagels and she seems like a very complex and interesting individual. I found it fascinationg to read interviews with her and get a sense of the person behind the scholarly debate about the origins of early Chrisitianity. In this web review of her book “Beyond Belief”, in the letter exchange between the review author and his mom at the start of the review itself, we see a bit of the tension that we are experiencing in these discussions here on line. It is quite interesting.
http://www.necessaryprose.com/beyondbelief.htm
I have a book called “The Essential Jesus” by John Dominic Crossan which tries to do something similar in a bit simpler format and using for what I can see the more traditional Gospel accounts of Jesus sayings.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Like I said emmzee, lighten up.
Don’t be hatin’!
July 20th, 2006 at 8:44 am
[...] Someone posted a comment on the Discuss Da Vinci Blog recently in the “Ultimate Da Vinci Code Question: Who is Jesus?” thread, where they commented “Lighten up, it?s just a stupid (fictional!) book. Faith is a personal thing. If your faith is strong, it shouldn?t be threatened by some hack?s novel.” Of course this comment didn’t really have much to do with the content of the original post. I replied, noting that Dan Brown doesn’t think that The Da Vinci Code is “just a stupid (fictional!) book” (see the “Ultimate Question” article above). I then linked some articles about some of the things Brown got wrong in the book. The person’s next comment was succinct: “Like I said emmzee, lighten up. Don?t be hatin?!” [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
As I get more and more into this whole journey of exploration concerning the early Christian church, alternate or “lost” scriptures and such, I am finding that there is a huge amount of stuff out there on the net. All I can say is be wary. It is easy to put stuff up on the internet and spout all kinds of theories. One site that had perported to combine and explain all the religions and talked about some pretty orthodox stuff at first concerning Satan and his role in thwarting mans spiritual connecting to God, a little later on got into the concepts of Chrisitan reincarnation and even had a nice porno link disguised on the same page as its spiritual discertaion on the the tower of babel. Obviously to make a little extra bucks on the side for the web host. To me it is by your actions and the fruit of a pure and honest heart that you show others the true nature of your faith in God and this certainly stopped me in my tracks. It is amazing how many “cults” seem to get into the whole sex thing it almost is a cult given.
July 21st, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Vitruvian Man is a Leonardo Da Vinci Prophecy I am vitruvian man the new age have the name of leoil go to http://www.leoil.com
July 24th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Kadylak, are you implying that I could have been abused/contacted by aliens? Remember, I couldn’t actually say Jesus Christ’s name. I woke up in a state of panic screaming jibberish.
I also checked out the website that promotes this book you’re talking about. Here’s a quote, “Written with a non-christian in mind, this book leads the reader inexorably to one conclusion… there is an “intergalatic” battle over the history of life in the universe. Eye-opening insights… for you and your non-christian friends! Great pre-evangelism tool!”
Here’s a message for the author, Gary Bates… Stop trying to convert people with your silly tactics. Love them instead… it says a whole lot more than just some crazy alien lead-them-to-Jesus campaign.
Jesse, I just bought “The Origin of Satan” by Elaine Pagel. Very excited to read it.
July 24th, 2006 at 11:43 pm
Christians seem to view their dark/animalistic side of their soul/nature/being as something that needs to be forgiven. What exactly did we do wrong that led Jesus to the cross? The fact that we were born? Born into sin? That doesn’t make any sense. (However, it would confirm that homosexuals are born gay… since most christians seem to think that homosexuality is a sin!)
Here’s a quote from Lisa Hunt in Animals Divine… “By integrating the shadow aspects of our psyche, we can learn to more effectively harness untapped animal energies as fuel for creative vitality.”
July 25th, 2006 at 9:55 am
Spiderwoman, good question, I think most Christians will say that the answer lies with the whole Adam and Eve thing. I feel like, being a Christian I should know the answer, but I don’t.
Someone very wise, whose advice I value greatly told me “although some homosexuals are born with a chemical imbalance that causes them to be gay, they don?t have to act on that, because acting on it, according to my understanding of the bible is sin”. I think I agree with him.
July 25th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
Meg, no one can explain the whole Adam and Eve thing. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a myth. Just ask yourself, “what did people believe in before the bible came to be known as The WORD OF GOD?” I’ve asked myself that question for the past two years. I’ve made up my own mind, have you?
Chemical imbalance? This wise person who you trust told you that homosexuals have a chemical imbalance, but they don’t have to “act on it” because it would be considered a sin? wow.
July 26th, 2006 at 2:10 am
all of this is actual ballshit
July 26th, 2006 at 2:16 am
i believe that jesus was alive but i do not think that he was the son of god but he was in fact a mortal messiah of god but i am unsure if his so called wife mary magdalene was actually to do with him and may very well be a big hoax created by leonardo da vincio and the so called catholic organisation may actually be doing the right thing and they are trying to help us not fall under the spell of the new world order. But this is all my opinon and may not be true but that is for u to decide.
July 26th, 2006 at 8:20 am
I guess that is what this blog is all about isn’t it. Thinking about what we believe checking out the appropriate info and then deciding. Glad see some new names.
I don’t believe homosexuality is a chemical/hormonal imbalance, as far as I know tha majority don’t actually have a problem in that area. There are some medical conditions that could create physical confusion and hormone imbalances that could make a person seem to be the wrong sex but that is very rare.
July 26th, 2006 at 8:49 am
G. K. Chesterton wrote: “The problem with Christianity is not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult, and left untried.”
July 29th, 2006 at 5:54 am
Spiderwoman: i belive in the adam and eve story, even though there are bits of it that confuse me, and i asked myself that question and personally; I dont want to base my belief of what happened in genesis, on some ignorent people that lived over 2000 yrs ago.
I agree with Jan. ya most people do choose to be gay, but that is unjustifiable, they have no excuses! and I agree with your quote too.
coolkid: Dan Brown even said “I have alot of questions. I have writen a FICTIONAL book, with FICTIONAL characters, to try and answer some of the questions and find possible answers” I dont understand how people can read a FICTIONAL book and believe it, they should stop letting Dan Brown make up their minds for them and think for themselves.
July 29th, 2006 at 8:53 am
Meg I didn’t really say that people choose to be gay I just said the reason in not hormones or chemicals. It is much deeper than that. In a sense it is a choice but not in the way most people think, it is a state of mind based on life experiences which can seem like no choice at all.
July 29th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
ok…
August 27th, 2006 at 7:17 am
I am simply shocked by the Christian Church as I get older. I read the following which was on the website and I am saddened that we think too much as humans for one thing and do not step out of the box and really think, here is what was on the website and then I will comment on it;
The best sources we have are found in the Bible itself. The biblical texts are the earliest texts we have, written in the first century and recorded by eyewitnesses or those who directly consulted eyewitnesses. There is no evidence that the Bible ?evolved through countless translations, additions, and revisions? as Brown, through Teabing, suggests. The Bible is in fact the most reliable ancient document we possess, and exists in thousands of ancient copies with no major discrepancies. Here?s what these earliest sources have to say regarding Jesus, who is called ?Immanuel,? meaning ?God with us? (Matthew 1:23).
COMMENT: the first sentence is already wrong and it limits our resources! The Bible is NOT the only source we have, we have famous PAGANS, 15 of them to be exact that followed JESUS and wrote of his MIRACLES, they saw and they wrote what they saw. NOw these were HOSTILE WITNESSES, they hated Jesus, they were muslims and other religions, 5 of them wrote complete books of what they saw! Of the miracles they saw Jesus do, they would always claim that demons or the Devil must of helped him, becuase NO human before him or after Jesus could do such or any for that matter Miracles. FIND the names of those 15 pagens and NOW we have those Pagan Sceptic OWN side witnessing for Jesus. Not just the Christian church which the pagens of today disclaim by saying that the Church is the ONLY source of Jesus! Now I once heard a Preacher state “can you imagine how low Jesus’s self-esteem must of been, to commit so many Miracles and have Pagans claim that Jesus was helped by demons or the Devil!” I say to ALL of you and every christian, shame on you… think about it! WE think as a human would react to that kind of ridicule… BUT Jesus is GOD and he was thinking ahead of the game! To him it was not ridicule but above and and MOST importantly… PROOF for future reference (US), that the Miracles DID, I repeat DID happen, for no pagan no not ONE, EVER said… NO, that Miracle or those Miracles NEVER happened, they ALL to the last one of them… witnessed… Jesus’s Miracles! FOR GODS sake… Christians THINK OUT OF THE BOX!
Steve Rodriguez
August 27th, 2006 at 11:21 am
Steve, thanks for your comments! I read them with much interest, but also found them somewhat confusing at times.
“the first sentence is already wrong and it limits our resources! The Bible is NOT the only source we have”
Steve, please note that I didn’t say the Bible is our *only* source, I said it is the *best* source, because it is written closest to the time the events occurred, has the greatest internal and external consistency, and has historically been regarded by the church as the authoritative source for the life and works of Jesus. There are of course many secondary sources that are useful, such as the works of Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny the Younger, etc as well as those of the early church fathers, which verify what the biblical works say about Him.
“we have famous PAGANS, 15 of them to be exact that followed JESUS and wrote of his MIRACLES”
Interesting, who were these 15 pagans that you are referring to? I have never heard of this before.
“NOw these were HOSTILE WITNESSES, they hated Jesus, they were muslims and other religions, 5 of them wrote complete books of what they saw!”
I wonder how any of these could have been muslims when Muhammad was born in approximately 570AD, over 500 years after Jesus’ death & resurrection, and therefore there would have been no muslims when Jesus (incarnated) walked the Earth? There is no doubt that followers of other religions would have seen Jesus and believed, but none of them would have been muslims. (Unless you are referring to muslims seeing visions or personal (modern day) appearances of Jesus, or some such events.)
“for no pagan no not ONE, EVER said? NO, that Miracle or those Miracles NEVER happened, they ALL to the last one of them? witnessed? Jesus?s Miracles!”
This is true, in a sense. For example, there are no early Jewish writings that deny Jesus performed miracles; certain Jewish writings attribute His miracles erroneously to sorcery or somesuch, but none outright deny He performed amacing feats. (I’m quite aware Jews are not pagans, but I’m just using this as an example of how people would try to explain away Jesus’ miracles.)
However, it should be noted that some passages from the New Testament do seem to indicate that not everyone who viewed Jesus’ miracles followed Him, for example, where “Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.” (Matthew 11:20). Or even more explicitly in John 12:37: “Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.” So, unfortunately, it sounds like witnessing Jesus’ miracles wasn’t enough to convince some people. Regardless of how much evidence is put before them, tragically some will choose to harden their hearts and turn their backs on God.
August 27th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
I must apoligize, I JUST saw your webpage today, and I was did not think about the fact that the “muslims” were not around when Jesus walked the earth, BUT, those 15 were Pagens. I know I should of been sure, but at the moment I did not think about it.
Although the fact about the 15 pagens… Check with Dr. James Kennedy for one, you
see I heard this on one of his broadcasts and I wrote the names down as he said
them so I know the spelling is incorrect. But if you want the true spelling, contact
Dr. James Kennedy, just do a search for him. There were 15 of them of which 5 wrote
complete books of Jesus, and they were Pagens. Some of them were Roman others were
of other lands. PROVE ME WRONG! As GOD said…. Question Everything!
I am a Christian but I blame the Christian church for the “ills” of
our Country… they ask the children to be strong in their faith… But ALL the
Christians ( I was only 8 at the time) did NOTHING when they took bibles out of
schools in 1963, and continue to Coware to the Liberal onslaught!
Steven
August 30th, 2006 at 9:43 am
All I could find about Dr James Kennedy was a site claiming he is a heretic and another secular blog condemning some things he said about evolution.
September 9th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
First of all I want to comment on DrLeila. if ANY of you here are Christians, you will deBunk what that heritic says! The cheapest and easiest way out of depression is what Christians say… The cheapest way to depression issss… Take your eyes away from yourself and put them on someone else… Depression is NOTHING but shelfishness… ME, ME, ME. THINK ABOUT IT!.
Now I wrote about a month ago about, the 19 PAGENS who walked the earth with JESUS and wrote about him, I have given you those days to find the answer. I find that you have not even come close… so here are the names of those 19 pagens. At the moment I wrote their names as I heard them, as I cannot verify the spelling of their names I wrote the names as I heard them phonetically.
Tasitus, Certumas, Plinie, Ebeltch, Lyoul, Emanie, Lebaniu, Zozenesus, I did not get the names of the last ones. Each one of these worte of Jesus and his Miracles.
Now these 5 wrote FULL novels about Jesus and they were pagens!
Lachiu, Celsius, Poforsie, Hendies, Julian the Apostile!
As GOD said… QUESTION EVERYTHING!
Love GOD … Steven Rodriguez
September 10th, 2006 at 6:46 am
CORRECTION to my last post… I meant to say ” THE CHEAPEST WAY OUT.. I REPEAT…OUT OF DEPRESSION ISSSSS…!” the error was…”The cheapest way to depression issss?
September 21st, 2006 at 1:10 pm
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this, Emmzee. Well done.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:23 am
I am amazed at how much this topic has generated and how much controversy the Da Vinci Code generated. I have just read a new book on the Holy Grail & The Knights Templar by author Prisca Furlong, and she takes a very different line to Dan Brown. I suspect this is a true Christian perspective, with the added bonus of the author legitimately being descended from a Knights Templar. A very enjoyable and interesting read and further information can be obtained from http://www.imp-artpublications.com, who are her publishers.
December 24th, 2006 at 9:05 am
This is in response to Nicks Comment six months ago. Would it really matter… “Would it matter if Jesus had taken Mary as His wife and fathered children as Brown?s book suggests? He would still be the Son of God. I know the Bible doesn?t mention anything close to this. But when it?s all said and done, would it really matter?” Yes it would matter because Jesus came to fulfil the law of God and not to do away with it. God cannot be separated from His own Character (ie) It is impossible for God to lie. So if God is God, he can lie if he wants, would it really matter? If a prophet were to prophesy in the name of the Lord and the prophesy did not come to pass, that phophet was to be stoned. Jesus did nothing that was not pure and holy. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. Let God be true and every man a liar ( this includes Brown and his book)
December 31st, 2006 at 2:13 pm
After viewing the movie and looking at the painting of the last supper I could not help but notice a few things. (I apologize if you have already discussed these points.)
1. Jesus at age 33 would be old enough to be a grand father (woman had kids at age 12)
2. Mary would have been old enough to be Jesus? pregnant daughter.(taking the first name of His mother)
Am I too far off base? Think about it and tell me what you think.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:02 am
Dan Brown claims to be a Christian? Well, the first question that came to my mind was, “Is this guy living in the truth?” Jesus says that His Word is truth, and Dan Brown’s teachings seems ro be in contradiction with the Word of God! Many many verses to quote with, and many questions he should be pondering.
Matt 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Rev 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:14 am
My Response to article, sent in 7/29/07
Secret image ‘found’ in Last Supper
Madonna, Templar hidden in masterpiece, says expert.
Pesci Slavisa has indeed found one of the many of Leonardo da Vinci’s “Pictures Within Picture, outside the box, outside the frame”, or did he? Question the process he used to find these images and then question his process used to duplicate the mirror images, afterward question Mr. Slavisa again, then in which take a good look at the original invention by Leonardo da Vinci, the perpendicular reverse mirror image process and the optical illusion, researched, discovered and documented in “2005”, in his various paintings, originally discovered by Mr. Michael W. Domoretsy and “The daVinci project in 2005”. We congratulate Mr. Slavisa on independently duplicating something, but surely it was not Leonardo’s thought process or intention. Yes, for the first time in five hundred years after Leonardo’s lifetime I invite you to the viewing Mr. Domoretsky’s “ discoveries of the perpendicular reverse mirror image process and the optical illusion process Leonardo invented. Only then one will surely see the “true code.” We welcome independent corroboration and recognition of the mirror imaging process, discovered in “2005 by Domoretsky and the project. Now come and see the true code encrypted in Leonard’s masterpieces. You be the judge. The links to the perpendicular reverse mirror imaging process, invented by Leonardo da Vinci and discovered by
Michael W. Domoretsky in 2005, The True Code!
http://www.lionardofromvinci.com/Mona.html
http://www.lionardofromvinci.com/thechild.html
http://www.lionardofromvinci.com/Chalice.html
As usual, as is our experience repeated time and time again, renowned art critics and professed art experts, such Vittorio Scarbi and many others, base their opinions on accepted art world and art education precepts looking at DaVinci’s works as artists not scientists, inventors and very likely a member of the Mason’s guild (though unproven). Few if any of these “accepted” experts have read his notes in detail or studied the man himself and thus fail to understand and make the connection that he worked outside the box. DaVinci was known to have used mirrors extensively in his writings. It is therefore highly likely and to be expected that he would do something similar in his paintings if he sought to hide ideas, concepts or opinions.
We submit that only someone “as ignorant as a goat” could fail even to consider that a man of DaVinci’s genius and propensity for innovation might possibly think and communicate outside the box, with hidden images, or hide his, what might possibly be considered, heretic or dangerous free thinking ideas by encrypting them in his works of art.
As always it is difficult to persuade experts professing established thought in any field to consider new, alternate or previously UN accepted ideas…. But then the experts thought the world was flat for centuries…
The da Vinci Project
Managing Director, Michael W. Domoretsky / Director: M. Graham Noll
http://www.lionardofromvinci.com/index.html
Contact: http://www.lionardofromvinci.com/contact.html
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:57 am
Michael, I’ll leave this post up but stop spamming our comments with your press release. From now on they are being marked as spam.
I don’t doubt that Da Vinci was a genious and may have put “hidden” ideas in his paintings but you are really stretching. I can’t see it. Is there a certain “herb” I’d need to be taking to see it better?
November 23rd, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Has anyone heard about Copley’s cross at the Roslyn Chapel. This uni dude from Oxford found a cross with an inscription giving a tale that the second coming will be played out when a dude called Brunhala gets down and dirty with this chick called Mot. He believes that this dude is the progeny of Jesus and Mary.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Hi,
I tried to add an image but I don’t know how to do it
Can someone please explain me how?
Thanks for your help in advance :)
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