Comments on: The skepticism of Brown, McDowell, and Me http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/ Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:49:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Jan http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12521 Jan Sat, 27 May 2006 01:01:57 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12521 I think the searching out the other literature is more for our defense of the faith against unbelievers doubts and heresies not for building our own. I agree that what you said applies to our own life of faith. I already believe I don't need any further evidence. However, many baby Christians and of course unbelievers need to have the Word confirmed through historical evidence and rational belief. (Lord liar lunatic, or proofs of resurrection aplogetics as espoused by many famous Chrisitan writers.) For unbelievers it is not just enough to say the scripture says so. It used to put my husband to sleep when I read the Bible to him. He didn't believe it and there was no revelation in encountering it for him. He did not respect it as truth at all even though I told him it was GOD's WORD. I think the searching out the other literature is more for our defense of the faith against unbelievers doubts and heresies not for building our own. I agree that what you said applies to our own life of faith. I already believe I don’t need any further evidence. However, many baby Christians and of course unbelievers need to have the Word confirmed through historical evidence and rational belief. (Lord liar lunatic, or proofs of resurrection aplogetics as espoused by many famous Chrisitan writers.)
For unbelievers it is not just enough to say the scripture says so. It used to put my husband to sleep when I read the Bible to him. He didn’t believe it and there was no revelation in encountering it for him. He did not respect it as truth at all even though I told him it was GOD’s WORD.

]]> By: tj http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12488 tj Thu, 25 May 2006 18:18:32 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12488 Jan, I was not at all implying that we should throw out the book and rely solely on face-to-face Encounters with God. His Word is Holy and points very clearly as to who Jesus is. We need not look elsewhere was my point. The Word tells us to "...not add to nor take away..." and "...my words will never pass away." When our eyes are fixed on Jesus, all we need is one word, "Come," like Peter when he stepped out of the boat and began to walk toward Jesus. Many people are concerned about too many things (Martha types) and they (unlike Mary) are blinded as to who it is that stands in front of them...it is the Son of the Living God - Jesus! It's ok to be a Mary and that is what He prefers, that we do the one thing He requires. Nothing else matters. We need to quit being ruled by the world and let Jesus be Lord, not just Savior. We need to be more zealous and radical like the Chinese Christians who are being martyred because of their faith. All some of them have is one page from the Bible. They treasure it, believe it, preach it, and die for it. Do they go around searching for all this other literature and philosophies and ideas and opinions? No, they have met Jesus face-to-face and trust in Him wholeheartedly. They follow when He says, "Come." We (Americans) live in a microwave society and want everything right now, we want it our way. We have to understand everything and get every detail; we rely on every jot and tittle before we'll move. God wants us to move now, hence Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith..." We are stuck in ready, aim, fire mode when we should be saying ready, fire and let the Holy Spirit adjust our aim. We let our logic, reason, fear, doubt, insecurity, unbelief, and pride limit us and aim for us. We aim and we aim and we aim but never fire. Peter fired when he stepped out of the boat and Jesus adjusted his aim. We need to wake up and quit trying to do this on our own and let God in every aspect of our life. We need to be completely open and available to His calling. He'll do the rest. Jan,

I was not at all implying that we should throw out the book and rely solely on face-to-face Encounters with God. His Word is Holy and points very clearly as to who Jesus is. We need not look elsewhere was my point. The Word tells us to “…not add to nor take away…” and “…my words will never pass away.” When our eyes are fixed on Jesus, all we need is one word, “Come,” like Peter when he stepped out of the boat and began to walk toward Jesus. Many people are concerned about too many things (Martha types) and they (unlike Mary) are blinded as to who it is that stands in front of them…it is the Son of the Living God - Jesus! It’s ok to be a Mary and that is what He prefers, that we do the one thing He requires. Nothing else matters. We need to quit being ruled by the world and let Jesus be Lord, not just Savior. We need to be more zealous and radical like the Chinese Christians who are being martyred because of their faith. All some of them have is one page from the Bible. They treasure it, believe it, preach it, and die for it. Do they go around searching for all this other literature and philosophies and ideas and opinions? No, they have met Jesus face-to-face and trust in Him wholeheartedly. They follow when He says, “Come.” We (Americans) live in a microwave society and want everything right now, we want it our way. We have to understand everything and get every detail; we rely on every jot and tittle before we’ll move. God wants us to move now, hence Hebrews 11:1, “Now faith…” We are stuck in ready, aim, fire mode when we should be saying ready, fire and let the Holy Spirit adjust our aim. We let our logic, reason, fear, doubt, insecurity, unbelief, and pride limit us and aim for us. We aim and we aim and we aim but never fire. Peter fired when he stepped out of the boat and Jesus adjusted his aim. We need to wake up and quit trying to do this on our own and let God in every aspect of our life. We need to be completely open and available to His calling. He’ll do the rest.

]]> By: Jan http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12449 Jan Wed, 24 May 2006 02:00:16 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12449 I am sorry mark but you have lost me there. What do you mean Java is the same as Jehovah? I always thought Java was a place on earth or a slang name for a cup of coffee. Jehovah is not the real name of God but dates back only to about the 15 or 16 Century. You are right "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." John 4:24. However for the purposes of futher revelation, God became flesh and blood human and dwelled with Man. He wanted us to understand God face to face. That kind of relationship had not been open to people till He came. In the Jewish tradtions this was only open to a select few and only for a limited time frame. I am sorry mark but you have lost me there. What do you mean Java is the same as Jehovah? I always thought Java was a place on earth or a slang name for a cup of coffee. Jehovah is not the real name of God but dates back only to about the 15 or 16 Century. You are right “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” John 4:24. However for the purposes of futher revelation, God became flesh and blood human and dwelled with Man. He wanted us to understand God face to face. That kind of relationship had not been open to people till He came. In the Jewish tradtions this was only open to a select few and only for a limited time frame.

]]> By: Mark R. Aldridge http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12441 Mark R. Aldridge Tue, 23 May 2006 21:32:06 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12441 Jesus is NOT a man? You are right, God is a Spirit not a human. Whats the desire to hold on to the old-time religion? Even when the geometry and huge amount of code is in front of people - such huge hints. Here it is... You must accept that Jesus is not an Insurance Policy. Other arguments about divinity, whether a man, etc. pre-postulate that you actually understand what those words mean. In fact, it IS plain, the Stones DO speak. Java is the same as Jehovah - its code. If you want an insurance policy, that is something other than a description of the truth. Which is it that you want? Want insurance? or do you want to study to show yourself approved? Jesus is NOT a man? You are right, God is a Spirit not a human.
Whats the desire to hold on to the old-time religion?
Even when the geometry and huge amount of code is in front of people - such huge hints.

Here it is… You must accept that Jesus is not an Insurance Policy.

Other arguments about divinity, whether a man, etc. pre-postulate that you actually understand what those words mean.

In fact, it IS plain, the Stones DO speak. Java is the same as Jehovah - its code. If you want an insurance policy, that is something other than a description of the truth. Which is it that you want? Want insurance? or do you want to study to show yourself approved?

]]> By: Jan http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12384 Jan Mon, 22 May 2006 01:36:57 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12384 To me it is interesting that Jesus on the cross took time to formally unite John his disciple and his mom so that he knew she would be taken care of. However even though mary is right there, there are no words for her personally or even to encourage her to care for his mother as well? Also why did she still keep her name Mary of Magdala which is a region in Galilee. This was the custom used for unmarried women to distinquish them from others with the same first name. If she and Jesus were married she would have been called something else. Also John the Baptist wasn't married either, was he incomplete? To me it is interesting that Jesus on the cross took time to formally unite John his disciple and his mom so that he knew she would be taken care of. However even though mary is right there, there are no words for her personally or even to encourage her to care for his mother as well? Also why did she still keep her name Mary of Magdala which is a region in Galilee. This was the custom used for unmarried women to distinquish them from others with the same first name. If she and Jesus were married she would have been called something else. Also John the Baptist wasn’t married either, was he incomplete?

]]> By: Jan http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12372 Jan Sun, 21 May 2006 21:55:34 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12372 tj, you are correct in stating that Abraham did not have a "Bible" or need a bible study or 7 step progrem, he just listened to God and obeyed. However there was such a thing as the "oral traditions" that were passed on for many generations besfore being committed to written form that was available to him. I hope you are not suggesting that we do not need to stury the scriptures and discern God's will for our lives and that it all just comes from divine inspiration guided by the Holy Spirit. This sounds almost gnostic to me as they claimed enlightenment came from relevatory experience only and could not be attained by knowledge and was soley sensate.( I take that word to mean warm fuzzies or goose bump type experiences). Our Christian faith is based on historical truth, verifiable history and archaeology. Unbelievers do not share our reverence and respect for the scriptures as a source unto itself and therefore for them that is not a logical place to look for answers. It helps to be able to point them to works of antiquity other than holy scripture to support its historical authenticiy. Although salvation comes by faith, it is a logical faith, based on something real. tj, you are correct in stating that Abraham did not have a “Bible” or need a bible study or 7 step progrem, he just listened to God and obeyed. However there was such a thing as the “oral traditions” that were passed on for many generations besfore being committed to written form that was available to him. I hope you are not suggesting that we do not need to stury the scriptures and discern God’s will for our lives and that it all just comes from divine inspiration guided by the Holy Spirit. This sounds almost gnostic to me as they claimed enlightenment came from relevatory experience only and could not be attained by knowledge and was soley sensate.( I take that word to mean warm fuzzies or goose bump type experiences). Our Christian faith is based on historical truth, verifiable history and archaeology. Unbelievers do not share our reverence and respect for the scriptures as a source unto itself and therefore for them that is not a logical place to look for answers. It helps to be able to point them to works of antiquity other than holy scripture to support its historical authenticiy. Although salvation comes by faith, it is a logical faith, based on something real.

]]> By: tj http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12295 tj Fri, 19 May 2006 15:54:33 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12295 The Jews and Greeks got themselves in trouble because they did not have the faith required that pleases God. They were all about the intellectual, the logical, the physical. They could not enter into the supernatural where Jesus/God was/is. Both John the Baptist and Jesus rebuked these people because of this very thing. They may have been doing all the right things (religion/rules that were seen externally for man) but their hearts were far from God (internal separation from God - doubt, fear, pride, and unbelief = rebellion). They did not believe Jesus even when he stood right in front of them. They did not listen to Moses and the Prophets. The point is, everyone is looking to other resources rather than looking to God himself. Jesus asked Peter, "Who do you say I am?" Are we to believe a simple mortal man in his limited, natural (worldly) capabilities of knowledge and truth, or do we believe in the authorities God has placed in our lives - men who pray, seek, follow after, and hear from God? We can do all the research we want and travel to all the areas of the Holy Land to find these things, but is that what is required? In Luke 10:38-42, Jesus told Martha that she worried about many things, and that her sister Mary has chosen the one thing He required - trust and dependence upon Him. A heart that follows and seeks solely after God. Are we going to be a Martha, or a Mary? Do we turn to and trust an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God? Question, who are we to jump of the potter's wheel or to tell the potter how we are to be shaped. Consider Abraham, the father of faith and of nations: he never had a Bible or all these other sources of information to decide what was truth. To him, God said and that was that. It was credited to him as righteousness. He didn't need a bible study, a 7-step program, a new age method, or anything else to convince him that God was God. He trusted and believed, made himself available, and began to walk when God said "Go." What are we looking for? What are we doing? Hebrews 11: speaks of such men of great faith. I want to be like them. Dan Brown's efforts are nothing other than his attempt to fool himself and a justification that he is right. He doesn't want to consider the afterlife. He's deceived and Satan has him fully in his grip. Don't let either one steer you from the truth, for there is an absolute truth, Jesus: the Way, the Truth, and the Life, upon whom none will enter the kingdom and be with the Father except through him. For Satan knows and believes in God, he's had a personal encounter with Him. His response however was not one that God would allow. For that reason, he was sent from heaven, falling like lightning to the earth, because of his disobedience and rebellion toward God. His plan is to take as many as he can with him. Don't discount his power and his craftiness. He convinced 1/3 of heavens angels to join him. But his (and their) eternal destiny is that he'll be defeated, destroyed, and thrown into the lake of fire. He knows there's no turning back and his mission is to steal, kill, and destroy as much as he can while he's in charge of this world. Ultimately, we (and Dan Brown too) will stand before a Holy God and give his account for what he did with the name of Jesus - when all knees will bow and all tongues will confess that Jesus is Lord. God set the law upon our hearts and he set eternity in the hearts of men. He created us to worship Him and it is up to us to respond properly. Let's not look at the circumstances of life, but press on to the mark, the standard, of Jesus. Jesus conquered death so we could have life and have an eternal future with Him. His parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)speaks of this very thing we face today when we decide what it is we will believe: Jesus or DaVinci? Lazarus chose Jesus. Look at where his eternal destiny is. The Rich Man however is not in a very good situation. Like Abraham, we don't need to base our belief, our salvation, on the Bible alone. That is not what points to the validity of Jesus, of God. It is the resurrection that does. What are you going to do with that? Who do you trust? Quit relying on the world to teach you and let God. Step out of your limited, logical mind and take on the mind of Christ. Pretty soon you'll realize that the things you are striving after are not worth the time or effort that they once were. Did Jesus not tell us to deny ourselves and follow Him? Be a man of faith. God will not fail you in your quest for the truth. When you step out on faith, like when Peter step onto the water and began to walk toward Jesus, God will meet you. You may sink because the world will still crash in, but God will meet you immediately with an outstretched hand. Whose hand will you grasp? Whose voice will you listen to? Where will you decide to spend time in research today? Hopefully, it will be at the feet of Jesus, like that of Mary, who did the one thing that He required. Do what God requires, not what the world has taught you. The Jews and Greeks got themselves in trouble because they did not have the faith required that pleases God. They were all about the intellectual, the logical, the physical. They could not enter into the supernatural where Jesus/God was/is. Both John the Baptist and Jesus rebuked these people because of this very thing. They may have been doing all the right things (religion/rules that were seen externally for man) but their hearts were far from God (internal separation from God - doubt, fear, pride, and unbelief = rebellion). They did not believe Jesus even when he stood right in front of them. They did not listen to Moses and the Prophets. The point is, everyone is looking to other resources rather than looking to God himself. Jesus asked Peter, “Who do you say I am?” Are we to believe a simple mortal man in his limited, natural (worldly) capabilities of knowledge and truth, or do we believe in the authorities God has placed in our lives - men who pray, seek, follow after, and hear from God? We can do all the research we want and travel to all the areas of the Holy Land to find these things, but is that what is required? In Luke 10:38-42, Jesus told Martha that she worried about many things, and that her sister Mary has chosen the one thing He required - trust and dependence upon Him. A heart that follows and seeks solely after God. Are we going to be a Martha, or a Mary? Do we turn to and trust an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God? Question, who are we to jump of the potter’s wheel or to tell the potter how we are to be shaped. Consider Abraham, the father of faith and of nations: he never had a Bible or all these other sources of information to decide what was truth. To him, God said and that was that. It was credited to him as righteousness. He didn’t need a bible study, a 7-step program, a new age method, or anything else to convince him that God was God. He trusted and believed, made himself available, and began to walk when God said “Go.” What are we looking for? What are we doing? Hebrews 11: speaks of such men of great faith. I want to be like them. Dan Brown’s efforts are nothing other than his attempt to fool himself and a justification that he is right. He doesn’t want to consider the afterlife. He’s deceived and Satan has him fully in his grip. Don’t let either one steer you from the truth, for there is an absolute truth, Jesus: the Way, the Truth, and the Life, upon whom none will enter the kingdom and be with the Father except through him. For Satan knows and believes in God, he’s had a personal encounter with Him. His response however was not one that God would allow. For that reason, he was sent from heaven, falling like lightning to the earth, because of his disobedience and rebellion toward God. His plan is to take as many as he can with him. Don’t discount his power and his craftiness. He convinced 1/3 of heavens angels to join him. But his (and their) eternal destiny is that he’ll be defeated, destroyed, and thrown into the lake of fire. He knows there’s no turning back and his mission is to steal, kill, and destroy as much as he can while he’s in charge of this world. Ultimately, we (and Dan Brown too) will stand before a Holy God and give his account for what he did with the name of Jesus - when all knees will bow and all tongues will confess that Jesus is Lord. God set the law upon our hearts and he set eternity in the hearts of men. He created us to worship Him and it is up to us to respond properly. Let’s not look at the circumstances of life, but press on to the mark, the standard, of Jesus. Jesus conquered death so we could have life and have an eternal future with Him. His parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)speaks of this very thing we face today when we decide what it is we will believe: Jesus or DaVinci? Lazarus chose Jesus. Look at where his eternal destiny is. The Rich Man however is not in a very good situation. Like Abraham, we don’t need to base our belief, our salvation, on the Bible alone. That is not what points to the validity of Jesus, of God. It is the resurrection that does. What are you going to do with that? Who do you trust? Quit relying on the world to teach you and let God. Step out of your limited, logical mind and take on the mind of Christ. Pretty soon you’ll realize that the things you are striving after are not worth the time or effort that they once were. Did Jesus not tell us to deny ourselves and follow Him? Be a man of faith. God will not fail you in your quest for the truth. When you step out on faith, like when Peter step onto the water and began to walk toward Jesus, God will meet you. You may sink because the world will still crash in, but God will meet you immediately with an outstretched hand. Whose hand will you grasp? Whose voice will you listen to? Where will you decide to spend time in research today? Hopefully, it will be at the feet of Jesus, like that of Mary, who did the one thing that He required. Do what God requires, not what the world has taught you.

]]> By: Bill http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12106 Bill Mon, 08 May 2006 01:21:04 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12106 From what I understand, the Knights Templar controled most of the money of the Catholic Church and were the Church's "bankers" so to speak -- which is why they were wealthy (not because of any documents they had). Rob -- you are correct. Arius challanged the deity of Christ -- and the Council of Nicea was convened to help the church put in writing what it belived. The Nicene Creed came from this council. From what I understand, the Knights Templar controled most of the money of the Catholic Church and were the Church’s “bankers” so to speak — which is why they were wealthy (not because of any documents they had).

Rob — you are correct. Arius challanged the deity of Christ — and the Council of Nicea was convened to help the church put in writing what it belived. The Nicene Creed came from this council.

]]> By: effective web ministry notes » Internet Evangelism Day http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12104 effective web ministry notes » Internet Evangelism Day Sun, 07 May 2006 14:21:18 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12104 [...] Join an online discussion. For instance, I wrote an article entitled The skepticism of Brown, McDowell, and Me. Come and interact with us there. [...] [...] Join an online discussion. For instance, I wrote an article entitled The skepticism of Brown, McDowell, and Me. Come and interact with us there. [...]

]]> By: rob http://thelife.com/blogs/davinci/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12098 rob Fri, 05 May 2006 14:17:45 +0000 http://davinci.thelife.com/2006/04/26/the-skepticism-of-brown-mcdowell-and-me/#comment-12098 Mei, I'm no historical expect, so I'll have to punt on your question about the Knights Templar. To be honest, I'd never heard of them until I read DVC. Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templars" rel="nofollow">says</a> they had a lot of money. Not knowing about them for so long is due to my own ignorance. As for the Council of Nicaea, from what I remember from my church history class is that Arius was a leader at the time who championed the idea that Jesus was just man, not eternal or divine. Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea" rel="nofollow">confirms</a> my recollection. Thanks for taking part in the discussion! Mei, I’m no historical expect, so I’ll have to punt on your question about the Knights Templar. To be honest, I’d never heard of them until I read DVC. Wikipedia says they had a lot of money. Not knowing about them for so long is due to my own ignorance.

As for the Council of Nicaea, from what I remember from my church history class is that Arius was a leader at the time who championed the idea that Jesus was just man, not eternal or divine. Wikipedia confirms my recollection.

Thanks for taking part in the discussion!

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